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Energy infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Freddie Mcinerney


    Would the power capacity for the thermal power stations be reduced or kept the same if wind generated electricity is significantly increased?

    For the Republic thermal generation is 47.76% while renewables is 62.15%. Export is 9.74%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Pity then they need near constant back from conventional power isn't it?? Also those folks in the likes of the Congo and China don't get much of a say living with the consequences for their health of suppling the world with rare earth metals so that greenwash types can feel good about themselves



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    We've to reduce emissions by 80% so fossil fuel plant would move to peaking plant rather than baseload. So the capacity factor should drop and there'd be more standby payments.

    Unless we move to hydrogen as storage or more biofuel in either case thermal plant would be net-zero.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Thanks. I get that. Had asked before why wind generation is reduced in parallel with energy usage during the night time. It seems that once the coal or gas power generators are operating, there is a significant time frame that they need to run. Can't just turn them off instantly.

    I was involved with an EU project called Biomob. Main aim was looking at biomass resources in North Munster, part of Denmark, Hungary and Bulgaria.

    We went to each of the countries. In Denmark, one of the places we went to was Samso Island. There is a power station that run on solar, wind and biomass. All computer operated. If solar or wind is not sufficient, the power station switch to the biomass. The island people got the biomass free from the island Royal after his trees were blown down by a storm ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭specialbyte


    If you want to know why we are running thermal power generators at the moment (even with the strong gales) then I recommend reading chapter 4 of this report from EirGrid (https://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/Full-Technical-Report-on-Shaping-Our-Electricity-Future.pdf)

    It talks through the operational metrics that EirGrid use for running a reliable and high-quality electricity grid. Effectively we artifically limit ourselves to 70% supply from wind turbines (and solar) at any one time. We must have a certain number of thermal power plants running (particularly close to major load centres in the cities) to handle unexpected network events like a gas turbine tripping and going offline.

    It's a long read but it will give you all of the juicy details for how EirGrid have so far set records for the most amount of non-synchronous renewables connected to a major grid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The rare Earth metal story again. The majority of so called rare Earth metals aren’t that rare and are used overwhelmingly for refining of crude oil and when there done the metals are no more use just dumped on the slag heap. Batteries on the other hand can be used again and again.

    Perhaps if western stool jockeys like yourself stopped buying cheap junk from the east they wouldn’t have to keep powering the factories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    South Australia likely hold the record.

    "South Australia set an impressive new renewable energy record in the final days of 2021, with the state’s solar and wind farms and rooftop solar systems supplying an average of just over 100% of local demand every day for a period of almost one week.

    The unprecedented uninterrupted stretch of 100%-plus renewable energy output in South Australia was documented by data analyst Geoff Eldridge at NEMlog. Eldridge confirms that the state’s renewables share averaged slightly over 100% of demand (101%) for a period of 156 hours, or 6.5 days, ending on Wednesday December 29."



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There is next to no recycling of lithium and EV batteries. It's as much complete greenwash BS and deflection as the supposed recycling of plastics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    China make support colums for a lot of the wind turbines the EU and greens are so fond of.

    "China to build Europe’s biggest onshore wind park in Ukraine"



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Probably with steel smelted with Australian coal.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ironically the phone or laptop you wrote the above comments on were probably at least partly, if not completely, made in China too 🙄

    "There is next to no recycling of lithium and EV batteries. It's as much complete greenwash BS and deflection as the supposed recycling of plastics."

    Mostly because there aren't many to recycle yet. The first modern EV, the Nissan Leaf was only launched in December 2010, so even the earliest ones are only 11 years old and most of them are still on the road.

    Despite degraded batteries and range, they are still very popular on the second hand car market, they sell well as a second car in a family, a local run about, car for elderly or young learners first car. Situations where the reduced range doesn't matter much, but the low maintenance, low fuel cost and ease of use make them attractive.

    No point in trying to recycle EV batteries when most old EV's are still on the road, driving around!

    Remember, "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" is in order of preference.

    • Reduce, keep EV's on the road as long as possible, if the range isn't enough for you anymore, sell it to someone who is fine with that. EV's are likely to last loner then ICE cars due to less moving parts
    • Resuse, once the body of the car falls apart, reuse the battery in other applications like residential storage
    • Recycle only comes in when the above two have exhauseted the use of the battery.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    what do you think happens to your phone and other electronics when you put them into the wee recycle box



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There was a great vid out by Fully Charged there recently on exactly this topic. One of the presenters, Robert Llewellyn, drives a 2010 Nissan Leaf. Had a 24kwh pack, 65,000 miles done and wanted to boost the range rather than getting rid of it, so he swapped it out.

    Some other numbers he listed

    • total servicing for 11 years, £212 (wtf lol)
    • £4,000 for the new battery pack
    • More than doubled the range, nearly triple. From 40-45 miles to 120 miles now (motorway)
    • Using his solar panels to charge the car basically meant a cost of 1p per mile




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    They get included with other metal waste, are shredded, and then start either small or serious fires in waste processing centres, which can no longer get insurance as a result.



    Post edited by cnocbui on


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No, it's just a big windmill:

    turbine |ˈtəːbʌɪn, ˈtəːbɪn|

    noun

    a machine for producing continuous power in which a wheel or rotor, typically fitted with vanes, is made to revolve by a fast-moving flow of water, steam, gas, air, or other fluid.


    Fails the continuous bit and the vanes bit and the fast moving bit.

    It's just a really big aircraft propellor and isn't remotely like a multi bladed turbine rotor. Most turbine rotors are housed within a shroud/casing encirling the blade tips.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There are more than enough vehicle batteries in need of recycling due to car accidents. Just ask the Norwegian insurance industry, which will tell you that EV's are involved in more crashes than ICE vehicles proportionally.

    I watched a France24 program about a French specialist recycler and it was said that only 40% of EV car batteries are recycled, and frankly, I'm surpised it's that many considering how complex and expensive the whole process looked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.sem-o.com/publications/general-publications/ for docs relating to all island energy market

    Grid constraints for Week 8 2022 You can see which generators have to be on-load under which conditions. There's operating reserves to kick in between 5s - 15s - 90s - 5m - 20m and ramping margin of 1-3 hours.

    There's 75% of SNSP of non-synchronous wind/solar/battery/import allowed on the grid. eg. if there's 1GW of thermal/hydro running then the grid can accept up to 3GW wind and the surplus can be exported.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,353 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Northern Ireland. Wind was producing more than 100% of local demand.

    Once the 400KV and 220KV lines are linked grid will be more flexible.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "There are more than enough vehicle batteries in need of recycling due to car accidents. Just ask the Norwegian insurance industry, which will tell you that EV's are involved in more crashes than ICE vehicles proportionally."

    There are companies who buy up such crashed EV's (depending on state), remove the batteries and reuse them in other EV's

    Plenty of youtube videos of how it is done. In fact the above Fully Charged video is exactly one of those, the "new" battery they put into the old Nissan Leaf came out of a newer Nissan Leaf that was in a crash.

    "I watched a France24 program about a French specialist recycler and it was said that only 40% of EV car batteries are recycled, and frankly, I'm surpised it's that many considering how complex and expensive the whole process looked."

    40% sounds really good, for such a small and immature market. Specially as the batteries should be used in other applications first like residential storage, before you even consider recycling them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭gjim


    Lol.

    Cnocbui, a MILL is a device that breaks solid matter into smaller particles by grinding or crushing. Look it up.

    A mill powered by horses is called a horse mill, one powered by water - a watermill, one powered by wind - a windmill, etc. There are also: roller mills, gristmills, sawmills, etc. - all involve breaking solids into small particles.

    A wind turbine is not, by any possible definition, a type of MILL.

    And the reason it's called a turbine (not "something more like a type of airplane propellor") is because it extracts energy from the fluid flow. This has nothing to do the shape of the blades or whether they're enclosed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Thanks


    Interesting that Cork and Southern generation is determined a week ahead.

    My bug is why shut down night time wind energy? Dump it to schools heating storage units.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    So what - it was producing FA up until the middle of this month during most of the winter, hence the panic in government to get more gas power online ASAP. We actually really dodged a bullet this year with the winter being so mild. Its likely that the cooling phase of the Atlantic due to kick in over the coming years will make a bad situation worse in terms of the crazy developer led energy policies in this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Yup, and those poor developers won't get paid if the turbines don't spin ,

    And if the turbines don't spin them they'll be shut down , and eventually they'll just be cut up and removed for scrap metal , leaving a concrete pad ,that'll be grown over in a few years , what shame ,

    Or the wind will just keep blowing, more Batteries will be added allowing greater flexibility and predictability , allowing us to burn less gas , and smugly whizz quietly around in our electric cars...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Cut the petty semantics. Wind Turbine will do fine.



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