Horizon: Forbidden West (Horizon Zero Dawn Sequel) PS5

awec · 19-02-2022 6:17pm

Enjoying this so far.

But I think I am experiencing a bug where I can’t use my bow or melee attack.

Was in a fight earlier and L2 wouldn’t aim and I couldn’t hit with R1 or R2 either. Just had to run around and dodge.

eventually just kept switching weapons and it came back again.

Penn · 21-02-2022 12:04pm

Liking the game a lot so far. Everything feels very familiar to the first, but a lot of small new features and items which just makes so many things easier, especially climbing and getting down from heights. The pullcaster helps a lot too. Melee is much improved though no lock on can be a bit of a hindrance.

Some of the new enemies are just minor variances of previous ones, so I guess one of the main reasons was to remove your ability to override from the start. Have only done one Cauldron so far but it also seems like override wears off which it didn't do previously. Maybe I have to put skills into the Machine skills tree, will have to take a look.

But yeah, so far it's feeling as good, if not better, than the first. A lot of great quality of life upgrades.

_CreeD_ · 21-02-2022 1:39pm

I'm about 10 hours or so in I think. I spent a lot of time in The Daunt and I think this is one of the very few games where I will spend the time to see and do pretty much everything on the map. I think they've knocked it out of the park in terms of refining an already great formula. It's Borderlands 2 to 1, mostly the same but tweaked and updated in ways that really do perfect rather than just experiment. I love that it's actually harder to upgrade items now with the need to surgically remove rarer components from enemies rather than just kill and hope for RNJesus . The difficulty on some enemy types seems a little skewed but I've a feeling that has more to do with my currently heavily infiltrator focused build being pretty squishy. For example I'm about level 15 and took out my first Thunderjaw in this at about 13 but still have trouble with those damn Leaplashers. I'm kind've torn on the tomb-raider'esque increase though. On one hand I like that the environmental puzzles are more complex and meaty but with so much reliance on the character AI just getting grips and jumps right, and occasionally completely messing it up, some of them can be frustrating rather than hard or rewarding.

I am impressed with how well they picked up from the original aswell storywise. Using the tutorial to revisit and say goodbye to most of the original characters was genius imho. It gets the links to it neatly tied off, including how inevitably the main character is back to bare-bones equipment. Also that Aloy is still a hyperfocused well meaning emotional wall. She's not the cliched warm and cuddly super hero of most other games, she has flaws and it's pointed out clearly in one of the Holos in Death's Door where Elisabeth is talking to Tate and he asks how someone who fights so hard to save the world has no one she loves in it (though there's another hint that might not be quite the case a little later), it directly points to current Aloy's attitude that to save the world she has to do it alone.

I know I harped on the performance vs fidelity aspect earlier and yeah I too have gone with performance mode. Fidelity is gorgeous but practically unplayable imho. However I am disappointed with just how bad performance mode can look. Their checkerboard logic needs work as sometimes it can drop the overall scene's fidelity to what looks sub 1080p, it's like really badly processed depth-of-field. Usually it's not a problem as they focus well on the main characters and objects front and center and then it still looks beautiful but I've had a few instances either out in busier wild or social areas where it obviously is downgrading the majority of the viewing area to keep up and it can look worse than ZD at those points. It reminds me of DLSS 1, yes it gains performance but the cost is very noticable. I guess we've gotten spoiled with DLSS2 practically being a near zero-cost perf improvement, it's easy to expect it of everything else (and yes I know console's AMD architecture rules that out, it's just a pity).

Just having finished Death's Door I think I've been right about the source of the Signal, though i haven't gotten far enough yet to verify. After my first playthrough of ZD I thought it was Faro or at a push that the Odyssey hadn't exploded, after my last playthrough on PC release I was sure the it was the Odyssey escapees. Faro though having the technical access would have needed cryogenics or cloning to still be in play and completely scrubbing the planet didn't benefit him or fit his (completely messed up) messiah complex, though I have a feeling he will come back into it as one of those options later. In the first however the Odyssey is mentioned more than is warranted as just background on a failed Plan-B and there is enough detail about Odyssey having a copy of Apollo that if they made it we know they wouldn't have regressed like the current earth inhabitants and more critically they would have an interest in clearing out the current occupiers before their return, considering they were painted as primarily the rich and entitled I think it's clear they'll view those left behind as nothing more than peasants. Anyway the story has me hooked again so I'm dying to find out for sure.

johnny_ultimate · 22-02-2022 12:59am

I had a voucher with just enough to get this so indulged basically just to give the PS5 and TV a bit of a work out. I never really got into the first game and am probably already deeper into this than I got into Zero Dawn - I’m just past the first major story mission in the Forbidden West.

I heard a few people advising to just rush through the opening area, and I’m glad I listened. It’s well worth pushing through the few hours until the game opens up. Indeed, I’m planning to continue focusing on the main path for the most part until I unlock more of the navigation abilities, albeit with a few sub quests and diversions here and there to buff up levels. I’ll do the cauldrons and tallnecks as they pop up, of course, but just want more of those special tools to make navigation more pleasant overall.

The game looks damn good for sure. Playing on 60 FPS as I find the resolution mode basically unplayable in comparison. There’s image instability for sure with performance mode - looking out at the distant foliage from the first town, for example, you can see a clear, distracting flickering. But in the normal flow of play it’s barely noticeable - it looks great overall, a few quirks aside.

So far I’m enjoying the combat, even if a lot of the dino enemies so far feel a tad too similar. The game has the same ‘too many systems’ problems of a lot of modern AAA games - endless mountains of shite loot, an over-reliance on a ‘focus’ system, and a half dozen bloody skill trees - but at least the game is generous with resources and XP. They dish out skill points at some wallop, unlike something like Cyberpunk 2077. I’d also like if some of the more story-focused missions weren’t so reliant on Uncharted-lite platforming (yellow ledges everywhere!), even if the ropecaster makes things at least a little livelier.

The story is (sorry) shite - it mistakes reams of lore and proper nouns for interesting world building. It’s just an endless assault of bad sci-fi and tribal cliches. But Aloy’s a decent lead at least, even if they lay on the ‘arrogant hero learns to accept help from others’ themes very thickly indeed. There’s some good performances in the supporting cast too. But the central narrative and lore I just find profoundly uninteresting.

But I’m definitely enjoying the pace of play compared to most open world games. Part of that is me being more focused and not getting distracted by every meaningless little side quest. It’s hardly Breath of the Wild on the open world tier list, but it’s a pleasant enough diversion nonetheless. We’ll just see if I’ll come back to it after Elden Ring 😅

Penn · 22-02-2022 8:22am

I often like the small mini games they put into these games, whether it's a bit of poker/blackjack, liars dice in RDR, golf in GTAV, Gwent etc....

But Machine Strikers can f*ck the f*ck off. All the pieces look the f*cking same, the pieces you get are crap, and the opponents keep doing moves that may as well just be magic.

Markitron · 22-02-2022 8:31am

I think I have myself bogged down in the starting area alright, been chasing every ? on the map and it turns out I can't even access half of them. I think from now on I will stick to the side quests and main quests only.

Penn · 22-02-2022 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671183#Comment_118671183

Yeah I've found a few too that need later upgrades to be able to open. I have unlocked one item to open some of them and for the most part they seem to just be a bit of loot or collectibles, nothing major.

Mr.Fantastic · 22-02-2022 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118670740#Comment_118670740

I do agree on some points there, but I feel saying the story is shite is a bit far.

I know you didn't play the first one but the whole mystery of why the robots were there and the terraforming thing was pretty cool to uncover in the first game especially when you did the cauldrons, I thought it was a different kind of story and you see more in this one how aloy is separated from the majority of people due to her knowledge of the past. I do agree some of it can be dumb but the overarching plot was fairly novel I though anyway

Penn · 22-02-2022 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671438#Comment_118671438

I really liked the story in the first one. I thought it was done pretty well for what it was, and was a lot more intriguing and interesting than I thought it would be, with some great personal moments throughout.

So far in HFW, I'm past the base outside Plainsong. In terms of the story so far

The overarching story is obviously gone a bit wild, with the Far Zenith crowd coming back etc. Not sure how I feel about that. My main gripe thus far though is there's very little personal story for Aloy. The other Elizabeth clone might prove interesting, but in the first game we had Aloy trying to find her place in the world due to being an outcast, her mother, losing Rost. All we've really gotten for Aloy so far is her realising she needs friends to help her. It just seems a bit "I have to save the world and I'm the only one who can do it". It's not that interesting compared to the same stage in the first game.

awec · 22-02-2022 10:25am

When you are talking about starter area, do you mean the tutorial area or the first area you go to after the tutorial?

Penn · 22-02-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671554#Comment_118671554

I'd say it's the area after the tutorial; The Daunt. Some basic-level side missions and things to find in that area, and you're stuck in that area until a certain story mission, before you get into the much larger open area after.

awec · 22-02-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671569#Comment_118671569

Ah, that's where I am now. I'll power through it so.

Jordan 199 · 22-02-2022 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671164#Comment_118671164

I played Machine Strikers once. I have zero plans to play it again.

Penn · 22-02-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671644#Comment_118671644

I did a good bit in The Daunt, but I've ended up returning to it as part of some side missions found later anyway.

johnny_ultimate · 22-02-2022 10:59am

I cannot fairly comment on how much better/worse the story is here compared to the first game. But certainly from what I've heard and seen the first game's throughline of 'main character figuring out where she belongs in this world' is a more compelling throughline than what we have here. If anything, this is a game that gives the sense of many of the major and most interesting questions having already been resolved but they have to continue Aloy's story anyway. Cue a lot of tedious McGuffin chasing. Granted, I'm not at all into the overarching lore stuff either.

And yeah, the starting area is the Daunt (after the extended prologue). Definitely power through it - you can always go back when you've unlocked more stuff.

_CreeD_ · 22-02-2022 2:10pm

I love the story tbh. I'm not spoiler tagging this part as it's been out so long but the fact that Horizon Zero Dawn turned out not to be a super weapon or to save anyone alive in that era was brilliant. The mystery was built well and delivered at just the right pace while laying the foundation subtly for the prime villains in Forbidden West. Also for better or worse Aloy's character arc here works brilliantly IF you played Zero Dawn, her weird mix of selflessness but arrogance makes sense when you see how she grew up, the core of a decent driven person who was told she wasn't even human for most of her life, resenting yet needing to save the people around her. It is a sequel and it doesn't waste much time going over old ground other than the bare minimum to bring you up to speed on the core world, but that old ground definitely improves this experience imho.

I know the frustrations on trying to explore and running into impassable blockers you need to unlock tools for later but I would advise against just powering through any section at least permanently. Sidequests are generally very well written and engineered, some are easily up to the standard of mains in most other games, and are just as important for story building aswell as the fact they throw skill points at you (way more than you will get just levelling up). I'm including a list of the 3 main exploration unblocking tools (and one late game fun ride) below if it helps (spoilered out) so you can at least get the bare minimum for exploration readiness. I'd say the most important to grab is the Firegleam igniter early on as it's used in almost all puzzle areas for the first 2 regions. I haven't unlocked the Vine cutter yet myself and have only seen a few interesting side areas that really require it so far so am happy to let that one wait a bit longer.

No story spoilers, just items required for unlocking areas found in the open world:

Firegleam (red fungus, explosive):

Igniter, received in the main quest 'Deaths Door'

Metal Flowers/Vines:

Vine Cutter, received in the main quest 'Seeds of the Past'

Diving Mask (unlimited underwater breathing)

Received in the main quest 'Sea of Sands'

Sunwing (flying mount)

Received in the main quest 'The Wings of Ten'. Needed for at least one tall neck I've seen and some other walled off items I've found in the wild.

Leroy42 · 22-02-2022 4:04pm

Can I ask, when people are talking about needed certain skills or whatever to complete sidequests etc, is it that the game doesn't let you enter the sidequest if you haven't got that item or just you cannot complete it?

Penn · 22-02-2022 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118673583#Comment_118673583

It's not sidequests as such, they'll always only become available when you have the right equipment etc. But some of the ?'s on the map may require an item or ability that you haven't unlocked yet, in which case Aloy might mumble to herself about coming back to it later. These things are usually just related to loot or collectibles.

So it's not really worth chasing down every ? on the map as you progress. Do whatever ones you come across if you can and want to, but you're better off waiting until you have most of the items/abilities (story-based abilities, not skill tree abilities) unlocked if you're trying to complete everything, as otherwise you could have a lot of wasted journeys to things that you can't properly do yet.

johnny_ultimate · 22-02-2022 4:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118673583#Comment_118673583

Yeah you'll often reach an area - such as a deep pool or blocked path - and a prompt will tell you you can't proceed any further until you've unlocked a certain item.

_CreeD_ · 22-02-2022 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118673583#Comment_118673583

See the Spoiler section right above your post :). No story spoilers just which items you will need and when they unlock.

El Gato De Negocios · 22-02-2022 7:07pm

Played about an hour last night, working through the tutorial section and it's moving along briskly. It looks absolutely fabulous, can't wait to get into proper open world territory.

EoinMcLovin · 23-02-2022 1:50pm

https://twitter.com/Guerrilla/status/1496411984782184453?t=dlZ7kSTKFEdSffN6FwY3Gg&s=19

____

_CreeD_ · 25-02-2022 1:33pm

Volume 1 of the soundtrack is up on Streaming btw. The rest are meant to follow on Mar 11th and 25th. I love the soundtracks to both games and I'm really impressed with how they changed the tone for Forbidden West to be a bit more synthetic inline with technology returning in the main story as it is to the general world. You can really sense that right from 'Aloys theme - Forbidden West'.

My only annoyance here is I bought the Deluxe specifically for access to the soundtrack not realising with Sony that means it's limited to playback on the console only with no option to export, practically useless.

Grumpypants · 25-02-2022 1:53pm

I'm in the lowlands now which is a rich green forest location. It looked great in the day time but I just loaded in at night now and it's stunning. I'm just sitting here at a campfire looking around.

The moonlit canopy, the stars over head, the glow from the torches along the edge of a cliff that houses a settlement in the distance. The warm campfire with sparks gently floating off on the breeze. The distant blue glints from the machines.

Then the sounds, the leaves in the breeze, the animals chirping, the rumbling from the machines in the distance, the crackling fire.

And then sunrise hits and it all changes, the noises drop. Butterflies and dragon flies appear, a bee just flew by the camera. The whole space lights up and changes. You can see the veins in the leaves the purple in the flowers, the moss on the rocks.

The sun is still rising and the shadows are moving bathing everything in light and changing it all again.

Absolutely stunning work ❤️ but spending 20 mins looking at leaves and bees probably goes a long way to explaining why I struggle to finish games in a reasonable time frame.

_CreeD_ · 25-02-2022 2:43pm

Aye I finished 'Sea of Sands' last night and initially was a bit annoyed I couldn't fast travel back out and had to walk to the exit but the without anything remotely spoilerish the lightshow you get outside is just stunning. I was grinning and enjoying it as much as the on-screen characters I think. They've put an insane amount of effort into the world aesthetics from design through audio and graphics. It's not just technically good it's beautiful.

_CreeD_ · 26-02-2022 5:16am

I'm now at around 50 hours easily and maybe 50% completion. The sidequests are just so good that I'm only going back to the main story occasionally, as much as I love that narrative. I've spent probably 20 mins plus on each sidequest lately and been blown away by their quality, the only barrier between main and sidequest is main story progression and not effort, time spent or production quality. I'm at around level 40 I think, I'm past focusing on key skills to level up, and have since about level 30 hit a gear wall whereby just levelling up and not completing main or side chain quests means I may have the skill set but not the equipment level to move forward easily. I'm only now going back and completing quest chains to get better level gear. Here is where the game balance breaks down a bit I think. Overall I like the fact this game is harder than Zero Dawn, there is more emphasis on skill in requiring broken off components for major upgrades (that are destroyed if you just outright kill something) but it also majorly slows down gear progression past a certain point. Also the component requirements for ammo as you level up I think is broken. I stepped back after nearing level 40 and all key skills acquired to complete quest chains for gear and completed the Rebel Camps to be rewarded with a great elemental bow. But after spending all those levels being a component collecting ho' I'm now regularly running out of components to craft ammo for it. This with all the attainable mitigating skills for reduced ammo component crafting requirements. The power fantasy here has been reduced too far imho if you spend time levelling up rather than following the main quest at suggested levels.

Still. Having a fantastic time, even after taking 30 mins and 5 fkn attempts to knock out an Apex lvl48 ThunderJaw at lvl 40. This game is just stunningly good on all levels.

Penn · 26-02-2022 10:06am

I just got to Thornmarsh in the Lowlands last night, so finally started picking up some purple-type weapons.

One thing that super annoyed me last night though was the fighting pit in Thornmarsh. One of the combos you have to do. The chain of moves was hold R2, then hold R1, then R1 R1 R1 R2, then shoot an arrow. Those are the instructions clearly on the screen. Yet each time I was doing the R1 R1 R1 R2 (Nora Warrior) part it'd say Wrong Input.

However, what the game fails to make clear is that holding R1 from the previous attack actually also counts as the first R1 of the chain attack, so when I was pressing R1 the third time I should have been pressing R2.

Drove me absolutely mad, because I even kept going out of it into the practice mode, doing that Nora Warrior combo perfectly, but then it'd never do it in the actual fight. It's genuinely the closest I've come to smashing a controller in years.

A lot of the side quests are really well done, but maybe it's how jaded I feel with open world games these days that I feel a lot of them also have too many parts. If I've to go to a place to do something, I shouldn't have to keep stopping to scan things, piece together stuff that's going to be quite clearly and repeatedly explained, and forced into numerous enemy encounters or stealth bits on the way to the actual story part. It's just padding, and especially in this game where Aloy has to stop and explain her entire thought process at each step, and making you stop and scan things or picking up the trail again only when she's finished talking.

But the combat is still as glorious as ever. And it's definitely true about how components are more important than ever, to the point where I almost don't use explosive ammo at all unless I've already stripped the enemy, whereas it would have been one of my go-to types in the first game.

Underwater stuff sucks ass though. Looks fantastic and beautiful, but it f*cking sucks. Done for the sake of adding something big and different into the sequel.

Hodors Applecart · 27-02-2022 9:33am

Taking my sweet time on this. Having lively kids etc means my time is limited. Just finished the first tall neck and Cauldron Mu last night. Was pretty straight forward I thought.

loving the game so far. My only criticism is the same as the original and that’s the dialogue goes on for far too long. I know you can skip it all but still.

Off work tomorrow so intend on putting a good shift in on it

Grumpypants · 27-02-2022 9:45am

I've found the early parts are very dialogue heavy as they are trying to fill in back story. But once you get a few tribes unlocked the amount of chatting does drop off.

I'm spending most of my time in the side quests, I'm doing almost anything to avoid moving on the story in case it ends. I'm loving just wandering around the world exploring. There is so much to do.

I like to have a game on the go that I can always hop into, I hate that inbetween games phase when I can't decide what to play next and just spend my free hour flicking around an not playing anything. I think this might be one to keep in that category. I've a few others on the go that I just want to blitz the story.

Penn · 28-02-2022 9:31am

Finished the main story last night. Didn't enjoy the story or characters anywhere near as much as the first game.

That said the gameplay throughout is still extremely solid and enjoyable. Some kind of enemy lock-on would help a lot (for camera rather than targeting), but other than that there's a never-ending joy in hitting a small canister on a machine's back and knowing they're about to get wrecked. They eliminated most of the cheese strategies from the first game (laying down 8 tripwires at the same spot was a personal favourite strategy of mine) and make it harder to override larger enemies, and make you really work for it instead. They went a bit too far in some regards (too many types of wildlife for upgrading things) but it was rarely a major hindrence either.

Main gripe with the game is Aloy gets up so goddamn slowly when knocked down. Jesus of all the amazing movement and traversal things she can do she stands up slower than my grandfather, and he's dead. Underwater is awful though, really awful. Thankfully it's not overused as much as some games do when they come up with a new feature, but it's still never remotely fun or enjoyable. I don't think any game has ever been improved with underwater stealth sections shoehorned in.

Going to switch to Elden Ring and come back later for the platinum.

Horizon: Forbidden West (Horizon Zero Dawn Sequel) PS5

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