Sacked doctor sues former employer for refusing to call trans-woman "she"

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672314#Comment_118672314

Your questions were stupid. I was being polite by not pointing out that they have no grounding in reality and nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

22-02-2022 12:41pm

Also, I'm sorry but:

"I’m confused as to why you or anyone else imagines they operate outside of reality."

I don't believe I operate outside of reality. I am a male, I am 49 years old, I am slowly decaying, going bald and not as physically fit as I used to be. Thankfully I am still mentally sharp enough to spot bullshit when I see it.

The people 'operating outside of reality' are the grown-ass men with cock and balls attached demanding we refer to them as women, allow them into women's spaces, to compete in women's sports and all the rest.

Seriously.

22-02-2022 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672319#Comment_118672319

If someone said they could fly, I'd say they operate outside of reality.

If someone says they are a man when they are a woman, I'd say they operate outside of reality.

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 12:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672341#Comment_118672341

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672325#Comment_118672325

It would appear so, from reading your post above this one, that we have indeed reached the content-free ad-hom stage of the argument 😂

And yes, that’s me joking again.

22-02-2022 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672331#Comment_118672331

Reality? What's that?

To quote you: "I’m confused as to why you or anyone else imagines they operate outside of reality."

I agree, the questions were stupid, because they had very obvious answers which no reasonable person would hesitate in answering "Of course not. Because a grown man isn't a child/Of course not, because a child is not an adult/Of course not, because the person is too small to get on the rollercoaster"

That is until it comes to the last question...

GreeBo · 22-02-2022 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671774#Comment_118671774

If I define "woman" to include people with horns & tails are you still happy to be included in that category, or would you want to add something to distinguish "your" woman from "my" woman?

22-02-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672448#Comment_118672448

Doesn't matter if you include someone else, it doesn't affect me, I am still a woman, doesn't change.

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672410#Comment_118672410

The existence of law, policies and so on. Like you keep saying how you won’t be compelled to do such and such, and you’re asking me questions as if either of us gives a fcuk, knowing that neither the question, nor the answer, would actually change anything. You have your answers already, and I’m fine with that. I just don’t care about the idea of your individual feelings being more important than anyone else’s, or vice versa. The point of the thread was of course to start another thread full of posters making sure everyone knew what they wouldn’t do, as if anyone actually gives a fcuk.

How self-centred do you need to be to declare that you aren’t going to appease anyone who in your opinion is self-centred? 🤔

AMKC · 22-02-2022 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628138#Comment_118628138

I Would say most or all Trans Women would sell there soul to the devil to be able to experience that as well as to be able to have periods and to have a baby.

It's not easy being a Trans Women especially if that Woman only gets to start living as she should have been in her 30s, 40s, 50s 60s etc. There is laser and electrolysis to go through none of it easy or quick. Then there is getting used to the hormones and then the big operations like FFS and SRS/GRS/GCS. For the uninitiated that is facial surgery and bottom surgery.

No one chooses to be Transgender. Its not on easy life socially or physically or economically or emotionally.

But that person knows that they will be far happier in there right gender than in the gender they were assigned at birth and are pretending to be because society expected that of them.

In the end it is there life and body and they are doing no one else any harm so why can't people just except that and be happy for them.

22-02-2022 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672529#Comment_118672529

I was asking you, based on your own personal line in the sand where you would personally think that "well this has gone too far". You don't want to answer, and to be honest, at this stage, I don't want you to answer either.

This is a discussion board. I like discussing things, especially topics that I feel strongly about. This is one such topic.

"I just don’t care about the idea of your individual feelings being more important than anyone else’s"

The lack of self awareness is astounding in that statement and makes as much sense as your "women are men" standpoint.

22-02-2022 1:36pm

It is curious, isn't it, that biological sex appears to be the one category that we are encouraged to self-identify into (or out of).

Why? Nobody can really answer that question.

Biological sex is real. It is a real phenomenon, not a 'social construct', and it is a major part of how life on earth evolves and perpetuates itself. It is real, measurable: an objective reality.

It has this in common with age and other physical properties like height, weight etc. Interestingly 'race' doesn't have the same truth in objective reality, race really is a spectrum, and race can't truthfully be tested for in any way.

But if I claim to be a different race, height or age, I would be laughed at. I would be told (rightly) that I was a fool. But if I announce I am a woman, I am taken seriously.

Why?

22-02-2022 1:40pm

It is also, btw, the reason that women have been oppressed by men for most of recorded history.

So when I hear people saying that they don't see why it is important, I laugh. It was important when women were denied the right to vote. Nobody was asking about gender identity back then. It is important when baby girls are killed for being the 'wrong sex'. It is important when girls still have less access to education than boys in many parts of the world. It is important where women are told what they can and cannot wear. Do people actually believe that these policies are enacted on the basis of 'gender identity'?

Even here in Ireland it is women who have to worry about getting pregnant, women who suffer in their careers when taking a break to raise children, etc etc (not things that can happen to trans women you will note)

Seriously only a man could ever say biological sex isn't important.

GreeBo · 22-02-2022 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672454#Comment_118672454

What changes is what "woman" means....it now means horns + tails.

GreeBo · 22-02-2022 1:42pm

FYI I define my adjectives as "awesome" & "handsome", so please respect me and use them in all interactions with me.

22-02-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672559#Comment_118672559

No one chooses to be Transgender.

You seriously believe that?

Useless Lump · 22-02-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232900/sacked-doctor-sues-former-employer-for-refusing-to-call-trans-woman-she

I never understood this claim that the baker who refused to refused to make the “gay cake” wounded the customer’s “dignity/humanity”?

Just go another baker who won’t hurt your feelings.

22-02-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672559#Comment_118672559

"I Would say most or all Trans Women would sell there soul to the devil to be able to experience that as well as to be able to have periods and to have a baby"

But the reality is, they can't. Because they aren't women.

"It's not easy being a Trans Women especially if that Woman only gets to start living as she should have been in her 30s, 40s, 50s 60s etc. There is laser and electrolysis to go through none of it easy or quick. Then there is getting used to the hormones and then the big operations like FFS and SRS/GRS/GCS. For the uninitiated that is facial surgery and bottom surgery."

Nobody is denying that it is anything but an easy life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

"No one chooses to be Transgender. Its not on easy life socially or physically or economically or emotionally."

Nobody chooses to be a male or female either. It's just the way they are born (not assigned). If you can accept that you are born transgender, you must be able to accept that people are born male and female surely.

"But that person knows that they will be far happier in there right gender than in the gender they were assigned at birth and are pretending to be because society expected that of them"

This isn't true. They weren't "assigned" a gender. Society doesnt expect them to be a specific gender. They ARE a specific gender.

"In the end it is there life and body and they are doing no one else any harm so why can't people just except that and be happy for them"

I won't be happy for them because as we said earlier, it's a hard life. But I won't disregard the fact that women and men and separate and trans people are not the opposite gender just because of their genuine beliefs. A belief, no matter how genuine, doesn't mean that it is based in reality.

YFlyer · 22-02-2022 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118670934#Comment_118670934

Exactly. I agree with you.

22-02-2022 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672661#Comment_118672661

I've been agreeing with most of your posts, but not with this post

It is also, btw, the reason that women have been oppressed by men for most of recorded history.

Women were often oppressed by other women. Women have stood as the guardians of conservative/traditional behaviour forever... just as female groups have opposed the Suffragettes too. Or that organisations that strictly controlled women's behaviour were operated by Nuns. There is this desire by some to ignore the presence and contributions that women have made to the development of the very society that held their gender back.

Seriously only a man could ever say biological sex isn't important.

Why? Many of the Trans advocates on this thread (and elsewhere) are female.

TBH I'd say the attitude posted above is similar to the attitude presented by the Trans advocates. A desire to reshape history and reality into a form that represents their desires as opposed to what really occurs.

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672607#Comment_118672607

I genuinely don’t think you understand the point of that statement, which is why you left out the ‘or vice versa’ at the end? You’ll pretend to be all offended then when I point out you’re being stupid. Can you figure out ‘my line in the sand’ from that? Good man, gold star for you for passing a basic English competency test that a four year old child would understand.

What line in the sand are you looking for? All you have to do is familiarise yourself with Irish law, then you don’t have to be making up silly stories and hypothetical scenarios to ask stupid questions, and who knows, we might even get around to discussing whether or not you personally, or @[Deleted User] personally for that matter, should have the authority to determine the extent or limitations of anyone else’s human, civil and political rights for the common good of everyone in society.

AMKC · 22-02-2022 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672696#Comment_118672696

Yes I do. Who in there right mind would choose to have to go through what a Trans person be it MTF or FTM have to go through to be the person they want to be.

Maybe some parents have choosen to have there son or daughter transition and that is wrong unless the child really wants it and understands it but with adults I doubt it.

AMKC · 22-02-2022 2:08pm

T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672719#Comment_118672719

I Would say most or all Trans Women would sell there soul to the devil to be able to experience that as well as to be able to have periods and to have a baby"

But the reality is, they can't. Because they aren't women.

Maybe not yet but I do think in the future they will be able to have babies.

They are Women they were just not born with all the parts.

So is a Woman to you who has never had a baby or can not have a baby even do they have all the internal parts to you not a Woman?

I won't be happy for them because as we said earlier, it's a hard life. But I won't disregard the fact that women and men and separate and trans people are not the opposite gender just because of their genuine beliefs. A belief, no matter how genuine, doesn't mean that it is based in reality.

I disagree.

A Trans person does not believe that they are a female in a male body or a male in a female body they know they are. The only part that is right is there brain. They know the bodies they have are wrong and most hate the parts they have and have to put up with it untill they can transition.

22-02-2022 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672768#Comment_118672768

Being trans includes more than people who have physically transitioned... it includes anyone who sees themselves as being female (or male). So, there isn't always a huge commitment involved in making the change and for those people, reverting is relatively easy. Hence the idea of people being "gender fluid", which allows for people who change their gender many times depending on their own perspectives/desires.

Secondly, have a look at the references of Trans people who have reverted after being transitioned, and the reasons given. There was a choice made both for transitioning and for reversing the transition.

Don't get me wrong. There are some people who didn't have any choice in the matter and who were born, either physically or mentally with mixed genders... but the idea that everyone who is Trans shares that same situation is implausible, especially considering the range of media and psychological conditioning that has been going on over the last two decades, to encourage people to believe that they are Trans. (in some cases, external influence leads people to believe they are of the wrong gender, rather than something they have decided for themselves)

22-02-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672746#Comment_118672746

Point taken.

It's probably a huge digression to go down and I have no issue with most of what you are saying. I will say that the oppression of women precisely because of their female biology has been a common thread throughout history. It's about controlling fertility and reproductive resources.

It's true that it isn't always black and white, and yes it is also true that some women deny biological sex is a thing. "Only a man" was probably too strong.

22-02-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672662#Comment_118672662

No it still means adult female, it also means beings with horns and tails.

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672635#Comment_118672635

It is curious, isn't it, that biological sex appears to be the one category that we are encouraged to self-identify into (or out of).

Not the least bit curious that you’d choose to define the issue like that though, when in reality, the issues for people who are transgender are the result of the same sort of ignorance you display above.

You can paint whatever caricatures of people who are transgender which suits your purposes, but what you can’t do, is pretend that laws don’t exist in Ireland to prohibit unlawful discrimination against anyone on the basis of a number of grounds -

gender

civil status

family status

religion

sexual orientation

age

disability

race (including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origins) or

membership of the Traveller community

22-02-2022 2:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672808#Comment_118672808

"most hate the parts they have and have to put up with it untill they can transition"

And yet surprisingly, the majority of trans women elect to keep their penises. And many of them on Twitter seem to get quite excited about what they are going to do to JK Rowling with them.

A strange "dysphoria" indeed.

22-02-2022 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672893#Comment_118672893

This is entirely irrelevant to my post. I mean, it is entirely irrelevant. Not in any way does it address the question.

Can you please at least try to argue in good faith?

LLMMLL · 22-02-2022 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118666483#Comment_118666483

Well klaz you can throw your toys of the pram and refuse to debate. That's up to you but what you actually said was this:

For pro-trans advocates, a woman is anyone who desires to be a woman. That's it really. They may or may not, have transitioned physically, but merely the claim of belief that the individual considers themselves to be female, is exactly the same as a someone who was born female. As such, everyone else should accept that claim, and adjust their perceptions accordingly.

No serious basis in science/biology.

You specifically say that the pro-trans claims have no basis in science.

If you had simply said "there is no basis in science for someone to change sex" then yes I would be misinterpreting you . Though it wouldn't be a serious misinterpretation as it would be pretty clear that if you consider something to be unscientific, then any belief in that thing would be an unscientific belief. But if we were being pedantically fair you would only have mentioned the scientific possibilities and nothing about the people who believe in them.

However you said "for pro-trans advocates, a woman is anyone who desires to be a woman " and go on to say this has no basis in science and now you are making the BIZARRE claim that you weren't talking about the scientific merits of how pro trans advocates define being a woman.

Klaz, when your argument ends up as "group A's definition of this term has no basis in science but I'm not saying their definition is unscientific" then you have argued yourself into a strange little conundrum. It's not surprising you don't want to engage further on this point.

One eyed Jack · 22-02-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118672910#Comment_118672910

Nah, can’t be arsed arguing in good faith any more tbh, I’ll just stick to pointing out the glaringly obvious flaws in yours.

Yours wasn’t any sort of a question, it was a statement, which ignored much of the history and context which informs our society and the values which are upheld in law.

You’re banging on about biology when nobody has to give a damn about biology, it’s not like this hasn’t been addressed numerous times already.

What you’re doing is exactly the same as the doctor in this particular case wanted to do - didn’t care that the person who he would have been examining could be out of work claiming disability benefit for what are often referred to as “invisible” or “hidden disabilities” (cos people try to hide them knowing they could be discriminated against in employment, Jesus Christ even having to explain this), and the doctor getting pissy because the person is transgender, ie - the doctor making it all about himself and how he feels. That’s not fcuking medicine, or science or anything else. It’s dealing with a dangerous idiot, because not only are they a danger to themselves, they’re a danger to every person who they’ll be due to carry out an assessment on.

Sacked doctor sues former employer for refusing to call trans-woman "she"

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