Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Yep. I think that says it all! :)

Well, I said in the first line of my post that I am no military expert but I do believe that aircraft like the F-35 are the last generation of manned fighters being planned. Or so I was told some time ago by people better informed than me. Granted, they are due to stay in service for decades but I believe that the future is in remote controlled unmanned drones. I will bow to any clarification on this point from people who know more about it than I.

However, you don't have to be a military genius to work out that building a credible manned, supersonic, stealthy fighter aircraft force from scratch is going to be hideously expensive. The entire infrastructure of suitable airfields, maintenance and support, secure hangars, spare parts, backup aircraft etc et would be mind bogglingly expensive. Even the independent TD who was once an Army Ranger scoffed at such suggestions on Prime Time a few nights ago. "Let's walk before we try to run," was his summary.

Also, there is the question of the size of the force needed. How many fighter aircraft is enough? Given the expense of the support infrastructure needed there would be a requirement for some economy of scale to bring down the unit cost of ancillary activities. So how many such aircraft would we need to even to begin to make them cost effective? And how necessary would such a large force be for our requirements?

How useful would, say, 10 such aircraft be? Given that it would cost literally billions just to deploy such a small number? Is it worthwhile to deploy instead some older aircraft that other countries are either phasing out or relegating to backup or secondary roles? Is there a better way to spend our money and provide a credible defence? I'm only asking.

I am not opposed to increasing our defence spending. Being ranked down among the Mauritius's and Laos's of the world is an embarrassment, and as the poster above says (and the CIA WF figures confirm) Costa Rica spends a greater proportion of its income on defence than we do and they are constitutionally barred from even having an army!!!!!!

Spend it wisely is all I'm saying.

Berry didn't "scoff" at the suggestion, but he knows well that everyone that doesn't want to spend on defence wants to use the "buy fighters" as an excuse not to spend anything at all, he supported the Reports suggestion of moving towards LoA2 (ie fixing our current issues and fleshing out our capabilities that were first highlighted 7 years ago) and then debate/decide to push on towards LoA3 or whatever is finally decided for that. Of course it makes no sense right now ordering fighters, but if 5 years from now the AC/AF had the intended extra staff/equipment/budget that LoA2 suggests then it would be reasonable to start considering it (or at least more Irish people might know what's being discussed).

As for building up infrastructure, that's a false argument, we will have to do that anyway, whether its for armed drones, or armed MPAs or anything else really. The case study for how many airframes and their costs has already been done by previous Ex-AC Generals and mentioned here before if you could be bothered to look.

As for what could be bought, given you've already declared arguable the cheapest multi-role 4.5 gen fighter as "a vanity project" I'm not sure you really want an answer. Given the current sales tactics from France we could probably get 12-24 Rafales as a mixture of new and second hand for about 1-2 billion fly away to take the Greek example (depending on how many airframes)

those aircraft would be in the category of alert or awacs aircraft, they need to essentially guide the QRA to the non responding target. Given this has been in almost every report we are behind on virtually everything from general service, Navy to air force. We need to catch up...

We could get everything off Sweden they are very advance Girrafe AMB, Swordfish 2 and 20 J39s. Rough numbers now but i reckon that’s the Air Force set.

There isn't a point.

They are yet another randomer who see the thread title, and dive in with their ill informed opinion.

The CODF lays out in detail relevant to the discussion the answer to all their questions, if only they took the time to read it.

Nobody is recommending F35s.

All that is being recommended is a bloody radar! Once we have the thing that we have been promised since the 2015 White Paper on Defence, maybe then we would consider looking into buying 12-24 aircraft, capable of investigating those aircraft appearing on Primary radar in our airspace, but not operating a transponder.

The CODF has already costed ALL our military options, across Land, sea and air, and they are saying to Maintain the status quo and achieve nothing, we still have to spend.

To have a minimum acceptable capability we spend €500m extra. Bringing our budget to in the region of €1.5bn, or 0.7% of GDP. (GDP simply put is how much money the state has to spend on everything). This will include our Primary Radar. We are currently at under 0.3%

If at that point, we decide that we need to go to the next level, of 3 extra ships, and the -careful now- QRA we are INCREASING the defence budget to 1.2% of GDP. Still much lower than most NATO and many Neutral states.

How we chose to aquire a capability we never had before is a question for then and not before. Should we lease to buy? Availability of Modern Gen-5 aircraft may for geopolitical reasons be an issue then so 2nd hand Gen 4.5 would do just fine. I give the example most frequently of Croatia, who just bought from France 12 Dassault Rafale, as France modernises its own Rafale fleet to the next generation. France are modernising to keep their own industry active. Nations like Croatia get to modernise their as good as non functioning ex soviet era aircraft with something well maintained, with modern sensors & engine and a support & parts package included in the deal.

Greece, hardly a small military are choosing to Upgrade their Mirage fleet by buying a mix of 2nd Hand and New Rafales, at a cost of €1.5bn.

But the assertion that "We must get the best and most modern, and we'll need lots of them, and sure we could never afford that and sure It wouldn't protect us in case of invasion" is frankly an idiotic statement to make, and I will continue to not entertain trolling like that.

The casa is intercepting the herc lol

Would there be many pilots from Ireland in the states or uk that would come back if a decent aircraft was available?

I know a man, trained with me in RDF, was commissioned. 40 next birthday. Now working in USA for a multinational. Got PPL soon after moving over. Recently upgraded to multi engine.

I know another lad in RDF of days gone by who started his PPL on helis, soon upgraded to commercial, last time I spoke to him he was type rated on S-76. and Bell 412. Worked the North sea most of the year, came home for Annual training, worked in the Gulf over winter.

Both military trained, have to say they'd be an asset. That's before you even mention all the ex Air Corps pilots who left once the rank they had to be promoted to wouldn't let them fly any more. Many working in the SAR world all over Europe, Africa and the Middle east.

Many would return if it was worth their while.

The answer is probably yes but in a different format. the Swedes and SAAB have done a Training and Aircraft package with a European Airforce. I think it was in a 12 jet unit. Pilots and crews go to Sweden and get trained up then return to own country with a contingent of Swedish mentors and maintainers to complete to required levels. All on contract with an intention to purchase.

The Brits are upping their Mil Spend from 2.4 GDP to 3% as requested by EU/NATO. We spend 0.25+/- including pensions. Twelve times more than us. ??

And who would fly these hurriedly acquired aircraft even if we had them?

We are starting from such a low base, we don't have any of the facilities or technical expertise necessary to onboard them, not without dozens of foreign advisors and instructors, be it military or from makers and suppliers.

I doubt you could buy a shiny new one off the shelf but anyway

I remember as a lad watchin the 1966 50th anniversary military parade goin down O'Connell St. And the Vampire jets flying overhead al low altitude. Very impressive! Not like the little propellor driven trainers they have nowadays! Need to get back to a decent level again and we need to have more than one aircraft type.

An interceptor and a ground attack aircraft. My suggestion is 8-12 of the highest specced Kai F50 and 8-12 of the new L 139. A squad of decent helicopters would come in handy as well. For troop transport and some light attack helis as well.

Next to Dev in the GPO.

Not true of the Vampires. they were still current when we received them.