3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

It doesn't reflect reality.

EU market aggregate manufacturing indices showed a 7% increase in costs for H1 2021 alone, the last HY for which figures are complete. That may not have shaken through to the buyers market of big stuff yet, but it is.

Neither going to agree or disagree with you here. Fact is the CPI is recognised internationally as a baseline to monitor inflation across a range of items in the household, determining the spending power of a sum of money. When measured against purely industrial items, it is not as reflective, as material costs fluctuate wildly for a multitude of reasons.

Nevertheless in 1984 we spent IR£25m for a helicopter capable OPV, at the time it was five times more than its non heli capable sister ships(and double what it had been estimated to cost). By 2014 we were paying about €72m for a similar sized ship. During that time the change in the buying power of a sum of money suggests that IR£25m in Jan 84 would be worth €73.5m today.

It is a pity that they are already up for sale on NAUTICEXPO by some Scandinavian or Finnish Sea Craft vendors. The Dept. of Defence should have been offered first refusal and a months trial run. If we go from Helga, to CLIONA, to Grainne, to Deirdre, to ORLA, to Roisin, To JAMES JOYCE, with SETANTA and FERDIA thrown in, how hard can it be for a Fifty Tonne 6 crewed Cutter that can do 25 knots.

If they are not fit then they should not be for sale and touted as usable for Law Enforcement and Prevention of ARMS EXPLOSIVES and DRUG smuggling.

AnGS operate two launches as river patrol boats. I wonder given the likely increase in Brexit linked smuggling, would there be any case for handing over the RCCs to them as an increase in capability? They wouldn't be excessively large for any navigable stretch of river, especially the likes of the Shannon, Lee and Barrow & Suir, where there are extensive ports and docks well upstream.

With the operation of craft second-hand or otherwise I don't think the GS are any cleverer than the naval service. I met the Garda patrol boat on the inner lakes on the Shannon last year, a decent craft. As regards the revenue cutters the Shannon has a maximum draft under normal river heights of 1.35m and a range of variable air drafts. Some tributaries are down to 1.2m draft and 3m air draft on fixed bridges.

I noticed a recent post by respected poster Dohville which mentioned that the Becket class ships were designed to accomodate a towed sonar array and a pukka radar mast. Now that LE Becket is coming up for it's quarter life major overhaul, would it not make sense to carry out this work, and as the other 3 ships are due quarter life overhaul roughly annually afterwards to do them as well? That way we can build up on the assets we already have while awaiting the government to come up with this "wall of money" which is supposed to be coming down the track for the DF. While they are it it I dont' see any reason why they should not have a few other modest upgrades such as a 16 cell missile battery apiece. With these upgrades the ships would pass muster as secondary "ships of the line" to support our new frigates when they are added to the fleet.

We might as well start by building on the capabilities we already have as this could be done out of the existing DF budget.

By the way....I'm not holding me breath regarding the frigates/corvettes happening any time soon given Pascal Donoghues statement yesterday about the amount of government borrowing arising from fighting Covid.

They are not fitted for, nor designed for missiles modules, they lack deck clearance, depth in the hull and all the data connections for such capability. They are OPV's not Corvette's or baby Frigates.

Remind me what happens when you make an APC look like a tank?

Same applies to making a ship designed for EEZ patrol look like a frigate.

Quick thought, I’m reminded of that German frigate a few years back that had a misfire of an SM2 on launch, it came through it relatively fine, are the P60s decks rated for such an event if it happened? While I take your point about the Halifax launches, they were designed for such and given the harpoons are adjacent I would presume some level of deck strengthening was present, off the top of my head really only the area where the 20mm are mounted or aft could even have the space and survive the sea state, are either position close to ideal?

The P60s would need the upgraded radar, any CMS systems, the hardware and even then you are left with a ship that simply won’t survive any hit in a hostile environment and really have no place being there… It’s a kin to the permanent argument that we should just by a trainer so we have something more than the PC9s even when they have limited capabilities.

If we wanted upgrades to our military, the French on past actions would most likely lend us the money to buy the shite off them as they’ve done to other nations, it would make more sense than trying to make the cheapest Western Europe OPV (by far) something she isn’t.

I'm no naval architect...but I'm sure some upgrading is possible. Look at the history of HMS Belfast and how that was modified during its long years of service. I'm certain that the experienced engineers at Babcocks had the nous to build in some upgrade possibilities. Worth having a look at IMO. We could be waitin a while for them Absalons or Meko 200's. And what about the WW2 Vosper MTB'S? They had more firepower in a tiny hull.

The existing fleet does fisheries protection and other constabulary duties perfectly well, manning being the issue.

Everything to do with ASW, ASuW and AAW will be expensive, it doesn't make sense to scrimp on the ship.

One word. Laserdeathrays. You're welcome.

Like most people have implied we are not talking about through deck missile installations. It would be an on deck mount with relevant target acquisition through the ship's system or even on it's own mount. In such a system all loads would be on the mounts ready to go with no reloads