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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    You are repeating the UK decision again.

    If it went to court for Ireland, the case would be different and likely finish in EU court rather than the Irish court. UK court made the decision initially, then it went to EU, then it was decided with Brexit and other factors to go back to UK court.

    UK court decided it was the best option, as it wasn't a tax. That doesn't apply here. No idea why you keep going back to that.

    Also price discrimination would play a factor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,593 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    That is just naked profiteering from the retailer and or producer. Whatever about the pros and cons of MAP (its a con!) there is no justification for this (beyond of course the simple fact they can).

    Best way is to simply not buy it. Why would anyone pay more that the minimum price for a product that was previously available at that price before?

    This is where the power of the consumer can count. A MAP shouldn't lead to price inflation for the more 'expensive' brands, although it will if the consumers let people away with it.

    I know, I know. People will say that there is no comparison between the main brands and these IPA's etc, but if that is all you are willing to put up with then no point complaining when the price rises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It has already been in the European Courts, because along with the Scotch Whiskey lobby, other European interests objected to the Scottish law. The European Courts adjudged that it is for domestic legislatures to decide on MUP, and sent it back to the Scottish Courts. From where it went to the UK Supreme Court and back to Scotland. It took over six years, and I think the European Courts would say anyone re-testing it would be wasting their time.

    Anyway it would be a bad look for the industry in Ireland to go challenging Public Health legislation, so they can continue selling their cheap slabs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    It has already been in the European Courts

    They didn't adjudge that it was best for domestic legislatures to decide. There were many reasons it went back to the UK.

    If it was brought to them again, they couldn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    In that case what is stopping the alcohol industry and their lobby groups is the bad look it would put on them to go challenging Public Health legislation so that they can keep selling their cheap slabs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,735 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I assume their supporter will be called MUPets



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,593 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Why would the industry bother? For the main players this is perfect. Heinekin, Bud etc no longer have to compete on price with the Lidl/Aldi etc products. It will very difficult to launch a new non big player product as they can't offer any discounts or compete on price. Very few people are going to try out the new brand when it costs the same as the usual.

    As we see in the earlier posts, for the smaller 'local' brews, this also gives them a way to increase their price as the relative price gap will remain the same and people previously willing to pay the higher price will content themselves that the price gap is still the same so they are still making the right choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,859 ✭✭✭RayCon


    That's because Tesco are sh!theads .... remember their "Treasure Ireland" comment back in the boom ....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,195 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Yes it could unite both sides, but pro rather than anti MUP.

    The DUP are no fans of alcohol, and SF thought the level of MUP in this country was too low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Like yourself, I don't know either way, but come maybe Easter time, when people are realising more that there are no longer 'sales' to be had, that alcohol is permanently at these ludicrous prices for the sake of a few, they might start making more noise.

    It may even be the beginning of a much higher amount of people heading up North or abroad to get their drink realising summer is coming etc. If that does start to happen, then one of the more popular brands may begin to notice sales in Republic dropping.

    Alcohol Duty fraud costs over £680m a year in the UK and is rising, I wouldn't be surprised if a chunk of that market started to make its way over here. That would also make people stand up and notice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Yes the elites of both parties have anti drink track records, the late DUP leader used to call drink the "devil's buttermilk" and SF think they know what's best for the working class as evidenced in the Dail.

    However I was referring to the voters on the ground who support them. Fairly fond of their cans in my experience.

    If they wake up and realise what MUP means for them things could get interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,195 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    things could get interesting.

    But things won't get interesting.

    Just like they are not getting interesting here a few months in and won't be getting interesting for Easter as some are suggesting.

    In the grand scheme of things people are not too pushed about this, regardless of what posters here think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Trying to foretell NI politics has caught out better pundits than you.

    I'm happy to wait and see.

    As for here I'd say it's a slow burner but I will give it to you that Boards is not a reliable indicator of the opinion of the general public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,072 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    from who though? there is more or less no public support for the indirect pub subsidy, so there isn't going to be any major criticism for the industry if they did challenge it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭La Madame


    Visiting my relatives in Germany . 4 cans of Pilsner and Lager . Alkohol content between 4.7 (Helles) and 5.2 (Export) Price for the can between 29 Cent and 55 Cent. There is 25 Cent deposit on each can. I did not see any hordes of drunks in the streets

    Tried to rotate Photo here but I am Not familiar With the machine I am Posting from. Sorry.

    Post edited by La Madame on

    Beer Drinkers support Farmers!

    Abolish infamous Minimum Unit Pricing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Nobody suggested things would get interesting for Easter.

    No point in me repeating what was actually said as it is only a few posts above.

    I agree, the idea that people in the grand scheme of things won't do anything about it. I don't agree that they aren't too pushed or bothered by it though. I think Irish people in general tend not to bother too much with anything no matter how much they might disagree with it when it is forced upon us. Which may show how much the water charges meant to those who did protest.

    We didn't even have a public consultation about it (MUP) here whereas they are talking about that in the North.

    I think that is why in my opinion, if anyone wants the law to change they would either have to wait for some of the disgruntled companies to take it to court (unlikely or very few), or maybe try and convince many more people to make some noise about it online or via email etc. Possibly get a body together to bring it to court etc. But if that is going to happen (a big IF), it would likely be easier to get people in a couple of months when they are realising the sting in their pockets has been made permanent, and the reality is that it's not our health that is the leading contributor to that decision. Those aren't the only options, they are just two random ones as i was typing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The media would be all over them, there were virtually no opposing voices when it was discussed on radio and i saw next to no opposition articles in papers or online news sources. The nanny staters and the college of physicians et al had everyone well and truly blinded with their falsified health argument. It would take a monumental amount of money and influence to shift the commentariat around to fairly balancing any discussion of the issue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    AAI on the news again, this time the joyless prohibionistas want warning labels on alcohol cans and bottles, guess who will end up paying for this nonsense??



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I see the latest bright idea is to revise the 17 units per week downwards.

    The publicans will yet come to rue the day they got into bed with the neo-prohibitionists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,593 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Or maybe the majority just aren't that bothered, can see that alcohol causes loads of problems in this country and are willing to at least give this a try as the price isn't really that high in the overall scheme of things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    But of course they are.

    They need to justify the salaries we pay them.

    Read the CVs of the people involved, they make a living from taxpayers money. Jobs for the girls/boys

    https://alcoholireland.ie/about/team-members/



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Depends on your definition of "the price isn't really that high in the overall scheme of things".

    A couple enjoying 6 cans of beer and a bottle of wine per week between them will find themselves paying an extra €400 per year extra.

    That's €400 extra out of after tax income just to enjoy a very modest few drinks in their own home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    This is where a big chunk of the price of your slab goes.

    Heineken CEO pay nears EUR10m after 6% boost in 2019

    Heineken CEO Jean-Francois van Boxmeer has been handed a pay rise in his final full year in charge.

    Carlsberg CEO pay dips in 2019 to US$7.2m

    Carlsberg CEO Cees 't Hart's total pay dropped last year despite an increase in fixed salary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,883 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Heineken has 167 breweries worldwide with 84,000 employees.

    For most of last year you could buy a case of 24 cans for €24 or less if you purchased carefully.

    Today a case of 24 cans will cost you €40.80.

    That is down to MUP and nothing else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,659 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Carlsberg do not operate in Ireland. Diageo franchise the name.


    Heineken, Diageo and C&C make up the near entirety of the market here (and really the entirety of the MUP-affected, now that Heineken have bought Comans), with a token effort from MolsonCoors. Coors itself here is made and marketed by Heineken!



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,962 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Those men should be politicians. They can separate vast amounts of money from drinkers, and get them to complain about the government.

    Of course they would have to take a big pay cut.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Follow the pint to €5



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