Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

I wonder what the average Russian makes of all this? I know it’s a big country with a huge variety of groups and allegiances, but surely they don’t love being ruled by a despot.

Isn’t there growing internal dissatisfaction with Putin? But then you just get poisoned with Novichok and chucked in prison, like Alexei Navalny. :(

The main reason I think its happening is Putin knows western style democracies developing and becoming prosperous on Russian border spells the end of any old style Soviet Union/powerful Russia what have you....+ there are some useful bits and bobs like Mariupol in there that won't just cripple Ukraine but would be very useful for mother Russia.

It's not a justified action at all and as another poster put it a good while back it has some parallels with the UK not wanting a successful NI highlighting what a total balls brexit has been/will be....except they don't have the wiggle room to launch an invasion and deep down I suspect would rather get rid of NI quietly as soon as its no longer a useful needle.

My biggest worry would does the speculation he's in bad health or not in a fully sane state of mind have any truth to it.......if so it's even more sickening that so many people will potentially die because of one man's insanity.

Can we please get a ban on point scoring from the American obsessed posters.

The Human consequences of Putin’s desire to bring the Ukraine back into the fold - a place they have no desire to be. Let’s hope sanctions are swift and harsh though I don’t think they will make any difference. Re Ukraine will to fight - sky news interviewing expat who has lived in Ukraine for 15 years and is still there - thinks Ukraine feeling runs deep and that they will fight to the end - with resistance groups springing up if/ when Russia takes over. Interesting take from someone on the ground time will tell if it’s a valid sentiment or not.

Putin has lied broken agreements and has invaded another state. Diplomacy is now defunct.

The Russian point of view is one of intentional ignorance. Like I say NATO has been a useful bogeyman for Putin all this time, when a rational appraisal of the situation would call for discussions with NATO on the future of the relationship with Russia.

But that would require acknowledging the sovereignty of several countries, which would run counter to the longer term plans. They only explanation for Russia feeling like NATO is a "threat" is that Putin wants to keep it that way. Since the fall of the USSR, NATO has only sought closer co-operation and engagement with Russia on a diplomatic level. Which Russia briefly engaged in, but in the last decade has decided to renege on.

Since NATO has not been outwardly hostile towards Russia since 1990 and has in fact sought alliance with them, any objective analysis of the relationship would conclude that NATO presents no threat to Russia.

Thus while a "Russian perspective" may exist, it is one based on ignorance and lies rather than reality.

Why would we expect the Russians to all be against this war of for there to be massive resistance.

Look at how yehaw gungho the Americans get when their governments go to war. Or how easy it was for the English to get all "no surrender" or get behind the "iron lady".

It's easy to convince yourself the propaganda is true if you want it to be.

Of course. Nationalism is one of the easiest things to get people onboard with, it's built into our brains.

I guess my point is that when you appeal to the "middle ground" by asking to view a conflict from all perspectives and find a common ground, it's easy to forget that sometimes one perspective can be wrong and the other can be right. "See it from the Russian's perspective" is useful when it comes to deciding what the response should be. It doesn't mean that what Russia is feeling should be given equal weight to how Ukraine is feeling.

Since it's very clear that the Russian perspective is badly skewed and adversarial, then it stands to reason that there's little value in diplomacy and sanctions are likely to only deepen the feeling of persecution.

"There should be no surprise that we are where we are" is correct. Because it's been blindingly obvious for years now that Putin has been building towards this regardless of what NATO may or may not have been doing.

It amazes me how Irish, British, Spanish journalists can work for RT, like how could you sit there spouting such nonsense everyday. And it's no loonies like Galloway I'm talking about, but educated journalists.

Reports coming in of airstrikes in Kyiv.

It will be hard now to know exactly what's happening. Ukraine will engage in propaganda of their own - they'd be stupid not to - but it is being reported by several foreign correspondents.

After Russian aircraft were allegedly shot down near the Belarus border this morning, it seems likely that any air attacks on Kyiv are coming from that direction.

That is the really worrying part of this. The existence of nuclear weapons mean that western countries will not engage militarily like 1939 in the face of German aggresion, so an emboldened Putin will be able to extend his influence.

I feel so sorry for the Ukranian people. The ambassador on the radio this morning was in tears.

"Clear line in the sand drawn for him"

So if you see diplomacy as dead are you suggesting invading Russia to take out Putin