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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    This is why I think the rumours that he is ill might be true, hes trying to secure his legacy and Russias future in his myopic soviet era eyes before he dies or is pushed aside due to the illness



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Protests breaking out in several Russian cities ,this could hopefully grow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    There is no on the ground response from NATO because Ukraine hadn't signed up yet. That is why Putin moved now because he very much feared Ukrainian attempts to join NATO which would have closed the door on this invasion.

    Both sides wanted Ukraine on their side and Putin couldn't get it through politics so he is going the direct route.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Need to be careful with the "Latest" tab on Twitter too, lots of stuff on there that people would probably prefer not to see.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Not sure how accurate it is , but it sounds like they've put a bit of thought into it

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,003 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I don't think its about Military buffers at all. Its about lots of things. Buffers is the last thing it is.

    Its military was devastated when the USSR broke up. Lots of assets abandoned all over the places in countries including Russia that couldn't afford to maintain them. So they were sat there unused rotting until Russia could make a deal to get them back.



    The Blackjack/White Swan is another example of obsolete assets that Putin is trying to modernize and have some value today.





  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Im so hopeful for Ukraine and the Russian peoples sake. I really wonder if he goes too hard on the protests if it will cause even more unrest or will it stop it altogether.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note

    Ahherelads2022 has been sitebanned. No need to respond to their posts any further.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭threeball


    Theres been a lot of reports over the last two years about Putins health and the possibility he has a debilitating condition such as Parkinson's. If this were true I could see a lot of this stemming from his own ideologies and a drive to see him reunite the USSR before his time comes to an end. His legacy is important to him. Looking around his cabinet during his speech the other night most of them were looking at him as if he'd gone mad and I suspect that is the feeling on the ground with no one willing to voice it for fear of the back lash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    You don't need to "hold 44 million", just convince enough to give up. If you had a family in Ukraine, you don't want to see them hurt. Dictators like Putin (this is his title) rely on the fear of others to keep him at the top.

    Humans by their very definition are hypocrites and walking contradictions. But we humans also are self absorbed in what affects us most. A war in Afghanistan doesn't really register with me much because I cant be upset about every tragedy of the world and I am fundamentally only concerned with my family and friends. Its not that I think its ok for these wars, but there is little I can do as an individual, so I try to do the best I can with those around me and not step on other peoples feet or take from others. If everybody did that, on national levels, we would be fine.

    The thought of a war in Europe scares me. Its not that I am convinced it will happen, its that I do not know how far Putin might be willing to push things and I do not know how far the West might push back. Somebody could easily make a bad call and escalate things unintentionally. At the end of the day, its fallible people/humans making decisions for us all on both sides. I was young when the Cold war ended, so alot of it didnt resonate with me. This is the first time I have seen a super power threaten the stability of a European country. The reason I say this is because this is the reason why people on this side of the water are getting concerned. Like every human (even the morons trying to belittle or side step the events with "but merica"), when my actual real life is threatened financially and possibly worse in an Armageddon scenario, I get more alert and pay more attention.

    Optimistically (from a depressing POV), the best I can see for everybody (except the Ukrainians who are the sacrificial lambs in this "optimistic" scenario) is that this aggression goes no further then that country and that the hysteria around it settles down over the next few weeks with all other inflationary concerns reducing. I hope NATO is flexing its muscles to make sure Putin doesn't go any further and that this will end up being Putin's only ambitious expansion. Being super optimistic maybe Putins own people will turn against him and the west can properly help Russia embrace democracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,975 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    The price of oil already up over €40 this morning :(

    I really hope it does not get any worse and that the Ukrainians can hold off The Russian army or there is going to be a lot of cold houses next winter :(

    Hoping oil drops back to 80 or 90 dollars a barrel by the summer. I say let Iran sell oil on the international markets again and that the OPEC countries should start producing more.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Not going to pretend I'm an expert here, this may be a really bad take, but I'm struggling to see an end to this where sanctions are sufficient.

    The western response to this seems to have been predicated on Ukraine being able to defend itself with western aid, but given how quickly Russia is advancing on Kyiv I am not sure how much this is working.

    If Russia takes control of Kyiv, and other key positions in Ukraine, are even the harshest sanctions going to make them realise this was all a big mistake and turn around and go home? At that stage Putin will negotiate from a position of relative strength, and a peaceful end would require the west to give in to some things (e.g. recognise Crimea or Donetsk as Russian).

    Or is the hope here that severe sanctions will lead to revolt from within? I am sceptical of this working.

    On the other hand, I don't believe there is any appetite whatsoever in western countries for war, so once he avoids touching any NATO countries he's unlikely to face much physical western resistance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,003 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Break out those Aran Jumpers people!

    It will be interesting how the energy plans will now change in Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    The sanctions were never going to stop him once it got underway. Unfortunately they are a long-game kind of tactic. Their affects will not be enough to stop Putin in his tracks. We just have sit here powerlessly and watch him devour Ukraine.

    There simply cannot be NATO boots on the ground or air support given the potential for catastrophic escalation between nuclear powers. It absolutely sucks but we're in a situation where all the West has are bad options and it has to choose the least worst of them to implement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭touts


    Richard Boyd-Barrett is on Matt Cooper accusing BOTH sides of being war mongers and that we should be neutral and not oppose Russia.

    Appalling Putin Loving Twat!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @awec wrote:

    Or is the hope here that severe sanctions will lead to revolt from within? I am sceptical of this working.

    Yes. The purpose of sanctions really is to force any government to give up on a course of action for the sake of their economy. And if they don't, to force instability as those in orbit around the dictator/government start losing money and put pressure on them.

    It doesn't always work of course. But it's about the only non-military option available.

    The ruble is down 25% in value against the dollar today, but none of the wealthy in Russia have their money in rubles anyway. To a certain extent, sanctions are only making the oligarchs wealthier in Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Disgusting. I actually had respect for him before. No more.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Irish Workers Party are also, unsurprisingly I guess, engaging in a lot of whataboutery on their social channels today also.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,975 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Agreed. I think if both sides were war mongers we would be at the start of WWIII by now.

    Maybe ye should go live in Russia and kiss putins arse while he is there. Its not like we will miss him anyway.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,975 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Also don't forget, only 2 days ago Mick Wallace and Clare Daly voted against giving Ukraine billions in loans, called for NATO to be abolished and were talking about anti-Russia rhetoric.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,911 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Ah listen - the two of them are their own special category. I lost any respect for them years ago. I cannot wait for the next Euros election to see them turfed out. Who the fúck do they think they are representing with their sycophantic pro-Kremlin, Pro-Assad and pro-CCP line?? They're an absolute disgrace and I'm ashamed any time any of their performances does the rounds on twitter



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Presumably if they manage to hold on to their dollars they will be in a prime position to hoover up depressed assets in an economically knackered Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Putin hauling more lackies in front of him for pantomime performances




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Moscow

    Large numbers of police being deployed to put them down



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    On this dark day there has been a lot of bravery on display. Most obviously in the soldiers going out to fight a losing battle knowing there is a very good chance they will die but, to a lesser extent, in people trying to protest inside Russia knowing they face certain arrest and god knows what else.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Definitely, with a bit of being the newly minted Tzar on top.



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