Questionable NCT fail?

Anjobe · 20-02-2022 11:12am #1

I had a strange one at the NCT yesterday, I wonder if anyone has had something similar. My car failed for 2 faults - a rear lamp not working and a worn ball joint. The rear lamp surprised me as it had certainly been working the night before, so I checked it when I went back out to the car, and sure enough all the rear lamps were fine. I queried this and was told that because it needed a retest for the ball joint they would check the lamp again then. I left it as I thought the tester maybe meant a brake light, but I checked that when I got home and they are all working too.

I am just wondering now how the tester could have made such an obvious mistake. He came out to the advice desk with the results for 2 cars, is there anyway they could have been mixed up and the ball joint fault is wrong too? I thought they recorded the results on the computer system as they test it in the lane and a mix up like that shouldn't be possible?

dkd21 · 20-02-2022 12:02pm

Lights can work and stop working at any time , loose connection , filament broken slightly ... by the time the car is driven out of the centre it could very well be working OR not working due to vibration from the suspension test , simply driving over a bump or the actual car power being cycled from the ignition switch , etc .. its not so simple as to say it was working the night before or even after the test .

Anyways considering the vehicle failed for a defect that requires you to return to the centre and book back in , the tester cannot remove the light defect until the car returns and I think that is where you may have got misunderstood .

Anjobe · 20-02-2022 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118662653#Comment_118662653

I can't claim that is not possible about the light, but I have never seen it happen and it doesn't seem very likely. I did understand why they wouldn't remove the light fail from the test sheet, but saying they would just recheck it at the retest felt like an easy cop out to avoid looking into any possible mistakes they might have made - what I am really questioning is whether it is possible that a whole test could be recorded against the wrong car? I suppose I should have asked to speak to the manager but at 5:30 on a cold wet Saturday I just wanted to go home for my tea.

I have booked a retest and I'll get the ball joint checked before then, the car was serviced before the test though and my mechanic is usually good at picking up on stuff like that, so I guess I'll just have to see if he finds anything wrong now.

User1998 · 20-02-2022 1:26pm

Well a light is a free retest so at least it wasn’t a money racket exercise or the tester having to fail x amount of cars per day etc..

maestroamado · 20-02-2022 1:37pm

The light may well have being an error but if it was only that they would have given you the pass on the day when you pointed out the light working.

The result of steering will be on your fail sheet.

I had car tested few weeks ago and window brake light bulb failed... i went across the road... got a bulb and cert was issued immediately....

marklazarcovic · 20-02-2022 1:43pm

Maybe a number plate bulb ?

User1998 · 20-02-2022 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663097#Comment_118663097

Thats only an advisory afaik

DoctorEdgeWild · 20-02-2022 1:52pm

Have a look at the ball joint, if it's worn, you'll know there was no mix up.

Toyotafanboi · 20-02-2022 2:15pm

If you're confident that the car is ok and the fail was unjustified then just book a retest and go back and pass.

dkd21 · 20-02-2022 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118662944#Comment_118662944

It is very likely actually , how often do you carry out light checks on the car .... a person who works on cars or carries out road worthiness checks might have a wry smile reading your comment .

They cannot do a visual retest on a car when it requires to be presented again with a booking.

This is really a non issue

Anjobe · 20-02-2022 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664127#Comment_118664127

I see literally hundreds of rear lights on cars almost every day in winter months, never seen any go on or off at random.

My point is that the light thing was such a clear and obvious mistake, that I don't have much confidence that the car genuinely does require an in-lane retest. It passed the side slip test with a big margin, it was only the testers opinion that it has a worn ball joint and he really didn't explain clearly why he thought that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663136#Comment_118663136

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663232#Comment_118663232

Thanks guys, not much else I can do now, I was just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience?

MrCostington · 21-02-2022 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663097#Comment_118663097

This is no longer an advisory, it was, but not now. Personal experience!

kirving · 21-02-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664127#Comment_118664127

It's "very likely" that the light stopped working for the time the tester was looking at the car, and is now working perfectly again? Really?

It's not impossible, but exceptionally unlikely.

Magown3 · 21-02-2022 3:39pm

How is your lens and the brightness of the bulb?

If they think it's a bit dull or faded then they can fail that also. So while it's working, it may not be useful.

Anjobe · 21-02-2022 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668339#Comment_118668339

Lens and bulbs all fine, the rear lights really are all working perfectly.

fryup · 21-02-2022 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663030#Comment_118663030

do they really do that?? mine failed on the handbrake?? although to me it works fine😶

Gant21 · 21-02-2022 11:36pm

This is one for Joe.

barneygumble99 · 22-02-2022 7:44am

Massive cover up and conspiracy theories here

Akrasia · 22-02-2022 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668201#Comment_118668201

My last car had a connection on the headlight that came loose when they were shaking the crap out of it during the test. Failed the NCT, brought it outside, gave it a thump and it started working again. Called the guy over, showed him that the light was working and he passed it

Needed a new socket which I got done a few days later

Flinty997 · 22-02-2022 8:58am

I've had the same experience with a light. Was loose. Tightened it. Went back in and got someone to look at it.

My mechanic had often thought the NCT decisions on suspension is often marginal. But replacing something a bit earlier is probably a good idea on the long run.

dkd21 · 22-02-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118668201#Comment_118668201

Yes really , given that the tester failed it for not working . By the time it has been through the suspension test then on the lift with the shaker plate it could well be working again . Rear light checks are one of the first things to be carried out.

Anyways the OP has not posted the fail sheet , said the type of vehicle or really quoted properly what has been failed

Anjobe · 22-02-2022 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118673215#Comment_118673215

These are the visual defects from the test report, really no significant additional information than was already given:

Rear Lamps - Not working or defective light source - near side rear

Front suspension - ball joints - worn - near side front outer

What does the type of car have to do with whether a rear lamp is working or not?

kirving · 22-02-2022 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118673215#Comment_118673215

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671387#Comment_118671387

I think it's far more likely that there is a different issue, than for it not to be working perfectly, then not working at all, and perfectly fine the next.

Is the bulb too dim? Was it a flat out mistake by the tester? Does the care have the option to turn on just one side of the parking lights and the tester missed it?

dkd21 · 22-02-2022 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674235#Comment_118674235

Some vehicles have segmented tailight lamps in which a bulb(s) may not be working

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118674797#Comment_118674797

I would be giving the tester the benefit of doubt due to my experience of working on vehicles and the test itself . I have seen this happen and is not uncommon

sumo12 · 24-02-2022 9:22am

Loose connections are very common in all types of filament bulbs in cars, sidelights, tail lights etc. Seen it many many times over the years. There's no great conspiracy against you here OP. Replace the bulb, check the holder for corrosion, fit a ball joint, go back and get your cert and move on.

johndaman66 · 24-02-2022 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118671387#Comment_118671387

You were probably lucky there to be fair. I'm not sure if I would have given the car a pass certificate if I was a NCT Tester in that situation, certainly if I seen you giving it a thump to get it going or you told me that was how you got it going. The actual problem had not being fixed and vibration of the road was very likely going to have that going on and off again. Arguably a bigger hazard to oncoming traffic than an actual blown headlight bulb. Highlights how lacking in common sense many NCT testers are.

Akrasia · 24-02-2022 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118683811#Comment_118683811

I didn't tell them obviously, I always carry spare bulbs in the car but it was the socket this time and I swapped that the next chance I got to go to the motor factors

ants09 · 24-02-2022 7:33pm

A NCT tester failed my car for having HID Xenon headlights when my car has Halogen headlights, there was no talking to the tester as he was adamant that they where HID Xenon headlights and refused to budged. So yes the NCT can make mistakes.

johndaman66 · 24-02-2022 11:33pm

I don't think too many even semi in the know will argue with the fact that NCT make mistakes.

One that stands out for me in a Carina E many moons ago I was failed for corroded brake lines. Took it to a few garages but none wanted to touch it. Might have faired better in the Summer but was coming up to Christmas and only had a few days left to deadline for the retest (silly of me to leave it slide like that, I know). One garage told me it was a pretty skilled job, getting the bends right and the flaring for joints - was highly liable to leak brake fluid if not done 100% correct.

Anyway I decided to be a have a go hero, got down underneath the car in the snow, cleaned the "corroded brake lines" with a small dremil like tool lying around, brillo pad and brasso. Access was awkward with the fuel tank hindering me but essentially I worked out that the brake lines were absolutely solid. At worst there was light surface tarnish on them. Assumed it would be noticed that they were not new brake lines and failed again and a few of the garages I went to alluded to this when I told them I would have to resort to having a go. Low and behold car passed the retest.

Oddly the brake imbalance in the retest on one axle was 12% while it was something like 28% in the original test. This despite the fact that the actual brakes weren't tampered with in any manner in the interim, nor the tyre pressures etc. That to me would indicate that their equipment is not too well calibrated. So much so that large volumes of people should be passing when they're failing and visa versa. Also there were fixings on the fuel downpipe from fuel filler to tank coming away with the rust that it wasn't failed for.

barneygumble99 · 25-02-2022 7:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118688772#Comment_118688772

Just to give you some info on the brake tester, we have all the Maha equipment in our workshop, so for example limit for rear and front imbalance is 30%. We’d drop the car into the rollers before doing any work to brakes to get an idea of whether there’s any issues, imbalance could initially be 5% or 45% depending on what’s happening inside the drum, with dust, shoes bedding in etc

that 45% reading could go up or down the longer you hold it. It could come down into the pass range after 10 seconds which is how long you need to hold pressure on the pedal for it to be a valid reading. After the 10 seconds the reading could be 12% or 28% like yours. Doesn’t mean that’s the definitive reading, just means that was the reading when the rollers had run for at least 10 seconds. You could leave the car in the rollers for longer if you wanted and get a lower reading if the readings were coming down but basically all you need to know is that they’re in the pass range and you can end the test.

It’s a bit like looking at a high jumper and saying he only barely jumped 1 metre in his qualifier. Doesn’t meant he can’t jump 1.5 metres but he just did all he had to do to qualify. Hope that makes sense.

jimdemp · 25-02-2022 7:58am

NCT is some scam. Its amazing places like Australia dont have NCTs or Carbon Tax. The Irish get robbed blind

sumo12 · 25-02-2022 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689433#Comment_118689433

Far away hills are always greener....

jimdemp · 25-02-2022 5:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118690561#Comment_118690561

Thats why so many Irish move there not the other way around

fryup · 25-02-2022 6:06pm

alot of cr@p cars in Oz though 😐️

johndaman66 · 25-02-2022 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689390#Comment_118689390

Thanks. While what your saying makes sense and I follow it still doesn't quite explain why the reading would be so very different two different times under the same circumstances (the same circumstances from the point of view of the car I mean, not the test equipment - well no dramatic change given the minimum mileage done since and no actual tampering with the brakes in the interim). That is assuming that the reading is taken at the 10 second mark in each case - you would certainly hope that there is level of consistency here. Otherwise cars that should be passing would be failing and visa versa.

Whether it does or does not explain why the readings are so different I think it does call into question the validity of the test - that is assuming there is consistency in the manner in which the test is executed. Of course the validity of the whole approach is called into question if there is no consistency in the way the test is executed and hence leading to different readings as a result.