SPC4320 and Delta Bell

hesker · 22-02-2022 8:36pm #1

Hi,

I'm setting up a Siemens SPC4320 panel with a Delta Bell Plus Grade 2/3. I have read a few threads here over the years with similar set up but still can't get it to work. I have wired it as shown in the attached pic. Panel is in full engineer mode. When I power up the bell it is fine but when I close the lid tamper the alarm goes off. At the same time I have a bell tamper alert on the keypad that I can't solve. I removed the connector for the tamper switch at the bell and bridged the contacts but I still get the alarm and still can't clear the tamper alert.

The bell instructions say I have to take the trigger voltage down to 1.6-3V but I haven't been able to get this to work yet. Expecting I should be able to fix the tamper first.

altor · 22-02-2022 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058234315/spc4320-and-delta-bell

I've never used that Grade 3 version but you have it wired the way I would..

I would disconnect the eng hold off.

Can you exchange it for the plus module or is there a specific reason for the grade 3?

hesker · 22-02-2022 10:32pm

Thanks for reply.

Eng Hold Off isn’t connected at the panel.

No reason for Grade 3. I bought it before I knew there were different grade bells available. I could buy a new Grade 2 module but I’d like to try a bit more before I admit defeat.

I found an old thread where someone disconnected the bell battery to help clear a similar tamper. I’ve tried that but made no difference.

hesker · 23-02-2022 7:45pm

Not much progress. Have verified that the tamper switch is working but kinda knew that anyway.

Have checked the voltage of the bell battery and it’s 7.5V. Not sure if that meets min requirements. The whole unit has been sitting unused for a few years.

hesker · 24-02-2022 9:04am

So I sent my diagram to Pyronix and asked if they could comment on the issue. Here is the response.

"We have no further diagram to the one that you have sent us.

We are unfamiliar with this third party system, if the bell is going into tamper when the lid is closed and there is continuity across the terminals, then it may be the way your system interprets the negative return with the inline 2k2 that is the issue. "

Not sure if this helps much. I took out the 2k2 resistor but no difference.

Maybe if I measure the voltage at the panel on the tamper return in quiescent and alarm state and compare it to the Grade 2 bell it might point to a fix.

Does anyone know the voltages for the grade 2 bell?

altor · 24-02-2022 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118683445#Comment_118683445

I think its more to do with the grade of the device as its a grade 3.

This covers antimasking and more security features so could be the problem, as far as I can remember the SPC grade can be changed to a grade 3 panel or they have a grade 3 panel, its one of the 2 😄

It would be cheaper to get a delta plus bell ordered and swap the module unless one of the other users here has done it and can share the information with you.

hesker · 24-02-2022 7:31pm

Alternative Install Guide 02 - Downloaded Mar 2021.pdf

The Grade 2/3 bell can be operated as either grade 2 or grade 3. The manual (attached) shows you how to set it up with a few different panels but unfortunately not with the Siemens. The wiring I have used is consistent with the approach though.

You are I’m sure correct that it would be quicker to buy a grade 2 bell or module but I can’t seem to locate one locally or even online without paying high customs and shipping. So for a little while I’ll continue to play around with it.

I’ll report what I do here as it might prove useful to someone someday.

altor · 24-02-2022 9:47pm

Try this and see if its the issue.

Delta.PNG

Change to grade 2 by link.

Check battery link is enabled.

hesker · 24-02-2022 11:16pm

Thanks but no didn’t work.

Tried switching resistor to bottom tamper also but didn’t work either.

Question: should I have continuity across those tamper terminals in the bell because I don’t. Maybe there’s circuitry between them. I’m getting 3V across them with the tamper switch open

What do you mean by

Change to grade 2 by link

Check battery link is enabled

It’s jumpered to SAB mode and battery set to external

hesker · 24-02-2022 11:26pm

Hang on.

hesker · 24-02-2022 11:38pm

Well that’s a bit embarrassing.

Didn’t have the G2 jumper set. 🙄

Thanks so much altor.

I must have read that manual 50 times and do recall seeing that when I first read it a year or two ago but somehow missed it when it mattered.

The tamper alert is gone and the bell test works on both bells. Will try get the strobes working tomorrow.

Thanks again.

hesker · 25-02-2022 8:36am

I dug out the manuals that came with the bell. The reason I didn’t see it in the manual is because it’s not in the manual.

So when I saw it before it must have been when I was checking over the bell when I bought it a few years ago. My eyesight isn’t as good now as it was then.

altor · 25-02-2022 10:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689560#Comment_118689560

I wouldn't have known myself only I seen its on the manual 😀

All ends well which is the main thing.

hesker · 25-02-2022 11:03am

Wait… you saw it in the manual?

Which manual?

altor · 25-02-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118690347#Comment_118690347

Yes its on the manual for the bell.

Google, Delta Bell Plus Grade 2/3.

It will bring you to the downloads for the bell.

hesker · 25-02-2022 5:45pm

Grand. I think you mean this one as opposed to the one I attached earlier.

https://www.pyronix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/10/downloads2/568.pdf

I got 2 leaflet manuals with my bell neither of which were this one.

All a bit pedantic of me really. It’s not important.

Doing the walk test to check things out. Have a couple of things I haven’t figured out yet

How to test the tamper alarm on my window contact/inertia sensors. Have checked the contact is fine and can see the pulse & gross count changes.

altor · 27-02-2022 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692884#Comment_118692884

Either take a lid off a device or break the tamper circuit.

hesker · 27-02-2022 8:35pm

I think I was thinking there might be something in Engineer mode as part of the walk test or monitor but I didn't find anthing. When logged out of engineer mode with panel unset, triggering the tamper causes a tamper alert on the keypad. And when set it does trigger a full alarm so that's fine.

Have almost everything sorted now. Just two things left I think

Can't get push notifications to work on my iphone. I think I have it enabled properly on SPC Connect and have asked for simple things like alarm setting but I get nothing. Notificatons are enabled on the phone and the app is installed and working fine

I can browse to the panel on my laptop but safari on the iphone won't connect as it says it can't establish a secure connection.

altor · 27-02-2022 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705075#Comment_118705075

Have you set up an account?

hesker · 27-02-2022 9:14pm

Yes

hesker · 27-02-2022 10:47pm

Rebooting the phone fixed the push notification issue.

hesker · 28-02-2022 11:41am

And I think I've fixed my issue with accessing the web page of the panel on the iphone.

If I understand it right Siemens dropped suppport for SSL a while back so a lot of browsers won't connect as the panel doesn't present a valid cert.

Workaround is to disable TLS and then add :443 to the end of the panel's IP address

http://Panel IP Address:443

I've not sure what this means for the security of the communication, i.e. whether someone could sniff out your alarm's username/passcode because it's no longer a secure connection.

https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/?page_id=1820

https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Technical-note-SPC-FW-3.11-TLS-1.2-option.pdf

altor · 28-02-2022 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118705998#Comment_118705998

Brilliant, glad you got it sorted.

hesker · 02-03-2022 7:16pm

My setup is finished for the moment I think so I thought it might be worth throwing up the final config. It might prove useful to others.

I have the Eng Hold working off the relay so that when I sign in as Full Engineer I can work on the bell without it ringing when I lift the lid. Also disabled the backlight on the bell as I find it a bit too bright.

SPC4320 and Delta Bell

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