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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oh ffs 80 years and nothing has changed yeah? Tell me all about the annexations and invasions the Italians and Germans have been involved in since WW2? and then tell me all about Georgia and Ossetia ?????



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It is also possible that the invasion of Ukraine will expose the Russian armed forces as not being as modernised or professional as they claim, they will be badly bruised in the war and it will cause massive unhappiness in Russia, being the end of the Putin regime.

    Which is what happened in toe majority of modern Russia's wars. They made it through Napoleon because of weather but he was at the gates of Moscow, WW1 collapsed the monarchy, Finland sent Stalin packing with a few sharpshooting cross country skiers and the Taliban sent them running once more and was one of the big final straws for the USSR. WW2 is their one true heroic victory and they barely made it out of that one through sheer bloody mindedness. Historically they have never been a good invader.



  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭berocca2016


    Just remember, the Tsar shot his people, consequentally the people shot their Tsar, could easily happen again, once the people lose fate in Father Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yes, decisive dithering and refusing to take hard decisions is what is badly needed now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet Putin only ever goes to war under Democrat Presidents.


    He knows they are soft on national security and overly bound to corporate interests now.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just a reminder, you're all talking about real people dying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    There was a lot to catch up on since this time last night. One thing to be positive about: People aren't nearly as divided in condemning this as I expected they would be. Bar the few loons defending Putin it seems the vast majority of people haven't bought Russian propaganda. The majority also seems to think the sanctions currently on offer don't go far enough.

    As a sidenote, PBP can lick the salt off my nutsack. They're an embarrassment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Oh I touched a nerve did I. A response full of abuse, just about your level from my experience!



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,676 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    They definitely want troops on the ground direct quote from Ukraine president..

    "We have been left alone to defend our state, who is ready to fight alongside us? I don't see anyone"

    That seems pretty clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..." is the new "I'm not a racist, but...".



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  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RIP for those soldiers who were murdered by the Russians on snake island after saying “Go fck yourself” to their attackers-

    With Russians just 20 miles and closing from the capital, it’s inevitable they’ll take the city this weekend- but what then? Well if the pensioners and elderly are armed there will always be resistance as they seem so hardened against the Russians- but there’s lots fleeing too - I saw a number of men in their 20s approaching the Polish border - so.not all want to stay and fight.

    Big speculation also in the papers that Uzbekistan Kazakstan etc are next- I don’t disagree considering there will still be no resistance and sanctions will max out at some stage so in for a penny. I wonder though could Russian citizens themselves decide the outcome- will unrest increase especially once the sanctions kick in ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭daheff


    We cannot change the mistakes of the past, only learn from them to do the right thing in the present.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭daheff


    100% he's wants foreign help. The way Ukraine have been abandoned by the West is a stain on history allowing Putin invade unchallenged. We all know he won't stop in Ukraine. Baltics are next on his hit list... possibly Turkey too.


    For all the rhetoric it doesn't help save lives.

    Sanctions aren't worth the paper they are written on. How's that nuclear missile program going in North Korea these days?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The EU and NATO have been courting Ukraine, for years, and their response has been weak tea so far.

    I'm actually surprised at the former Soviet states not pushing harder to engage. So far it only seems like Lithuania is even discussing it.

    The time for high level sanctions was South Ossetia and Crimea. Russia has had a decade to prepare for that level of response and factored it into plans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,872 ✭✭✭amacca


    The same Merkel that started shutting down nuclear plants in Germany as a knee jerk reaction to Fukushima .... leaving Germany dependant on Russian gas etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    If the Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan rumours are true hes committing to holding hostile territories of angry populations altogether totaling around 90 million and I cannot see how that is possible. Also Kazakhstan is 70% muslim and Uzbekistan is 95% so he risks angering a hell of a lot more people and countries with such a move.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,872 ✭✭✭amacca


    If he goes for Baltics never mind Turkey then we really could be looking at WW3.........I hope he's not gone that far off the reservation.

    If he gets to do that with the same kind of ineffective resistance shown to date then he will have been proved right about the West.....

    There shouldn't be any dithering about removal from swift system and hitting and hitting hard if baltics enter the firing line.....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He'll want Moldova, important to get it's Romanian border too



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Speculation in some papers - you make good points though - the key question is “Will there be other countries?”

    Its not inconceivable especially given Putins rhetoric to date. I’m hoping citizen unrest in Russia will become unbearable for him but it’s a lot to ask- he seems to have a solid hold on things right now but if restrictions bite the ordinary citizens maybe things will change? Something’s gotta give as the saying goes. He’s not invincible



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭rock22


    " Baltics are next on his hit list... possibly Turkey too."

    What evidence have you for this?

    I think the Russian will struggle to hold the whole of Ukraine, if they manage to invade the whole country which is not certain. Any further expansion will involve a direct response from NATO. Putin might be mad ( really) but I don't think he is that stupid. From Putin's point of view the time for an attack was narrowing. The west had made it clear they would allow Ukraine join NATO and that would rule out any Russian attack. So it was now or never.

    Appreciate it is almost impossible to know what the Russian plan is but could it be that after installing a puppet government in Kyiv they will retreat to the Donbas regions? We ahve to assume a long-term standoff between Russia and West and assume Putin has this factored in.

    But we are dealing with a madman so who knows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,872 ✭✭✭amacca


    Actually I think he makes a lot of good points, this is only just beginning remember...some of those could be the eventual outcomes....



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,843 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The lack of engagement from the West is the right strategy, it blows Putins rhetoric about Western threats and aggression out of the water. It will hopefully play badly for him at home, they invaded another country and still haven't been attacked by anyone else. If others aren't taking this opportunity to attack, then clearly they are not under threat.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can give the Russian military a seriously bloody nose. That should be the wake up call that Russia is not as militarily capable as they might think. Further expansion may not be successful, particularly if they have to devote significant ongoing resources to stopping Ukrainian insurgency. Anything other than steamrolling Ukraine with minimal casualties will have a lot of Russians questioning if it was worth it. Ordinary people will not support the invasion if they are seeing significant numbers of their own coming back in bodybags for no real gain.

    Ultimately the only ones who can remove Putin are internally in Russia. Some or all of high ranking officials/the military/general population have to get rid of him one way or another. That is why sanctions are the best policy. Completely hobble their economy and supply the Ukrainians that they put up a good fight, then those groups will seriously question what Putin brings. He only has to lose one, then the others will soon follow. The keys is draconian sanctions and keeping Ukraine resistance going for as long as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,740 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Why are you concerned about what Merkel is going to decide to do ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    This is why Russia waited for Biden to move. Trump would have bombed the crap out of Russia which would of upset the russia people more then the west doing nothing and looking weak



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭manonboard


    Is it possible to help the Ukraine's by offering them some place to live?

    I have a house with a couple of spare rooms. I've honestly no idea how to help other than money, which seems so small compared to what's going on.

    Is there any programs setting up to help displace some Ukraine's? My family took in a syrian student a long time ago and that helps immensely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Her legacy of damage should not be further extended.


    Merkel was all about stasis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    This is Putin’s denazification of Ukraine and his prevention of genocide. A small piece of rock 6 miles from the Romanian border - held by 13 Ukrainian National Gaurds. Shelled by a Russian Warship for hours now all confirmed KIA. Source verified by Ukrainian gov.


    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1497005877555077124?s=21



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You don't get to be the biggest country in the world by being historically bad at invading places



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    We are all experts in hindsight. It is now plainly very obvious why Putin marched up the hill and had no intention or plans to march back down again or lose face because his intention from the very beginning - from years ago - was to bring Ucraine back into the fold. He has done Russia untoward damage because how can anyone at any level do business with Russia when you cannot believe a word out of their mouths



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Look at the EU response, the will to act against him and Russia in a meaningful way is not there.



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