The jet stream and the Earth's rotation

I would not dignify a response to those who talk of celestial Lat/Long coordinates insofar as the 24 hour and Lat/Long systems are based around geographical coordinates where the relationship between timekeeping and geographical distances are fixed by the geometry and the rotation of the planet. In this case, 15 degrees of geographical separation equates to 1 hour time difference, which can be condensed to 4 minutes for each degree of longitude or expanded out to 24 hours for 360 degrees. The 15 degrees at the Equator equates to 1669.8 km or 1037.5 miles so adding rotation to this well known system creates the values for an equatorial rotation velocity of 1669.8 km/hr or 1037.5 mph consistent with an equatorial circumference of 40,075 km or 24,901 miles.

The issue is that unlike the fractured surface crust where velocities decrease in a steady way from the Equator towards the polar latitudes, the atmosphere, oceans and molten fluid beneath the fractured crust rotate in zonal flows or bands known as differential rotation and consistent with all other rotating celestial objects with exposed viscous compositions. Jupiter often provides the best example of this-

Yesterday's men, including some people in this forum, represent a period in human history when there was great destruction visited on Earth sciences, solar system research and timekeeping because of the rise of RA/Dec or the clockwork solar system where predictions are everything and interpretation was abandoned. You know these people as they are unable to get basic facts straight such as the cause behind temperatures rising and falling daily as the planet turns once each sunrise/noon/sunset cycle within a 24 hour day. These people imagine the planet turns less than 24 hours with an accumulating difference building up across a year.

Modelling for interpretative purposes doesn't involve dire prediction warfare, it is for those who discover that modelling for comparative purposes is far more expansive, far more creative and far more productive than shoving through convictions that humanity can control weather/ temperatures by doing or not doing something.

Yesterday's men can stick with yesterday's comments and they are truly remarkable even if not surprising after one contributor made others look like idiots using dire predictions, something which I have no interest in (page 71 is where it all goes sideways)-

The jet stream is a property of the Earth's rotation as is the polar vortex so it would be really, really nice if people could confirm the correct Equatorial rotation velocities of the surface and thereby work with the zonal flows and decreases which occur across latitudes.

Modelling for the purpose of interpretation is so satisfying whereas modelling dire conclusions takes the fun out of research and re-directs it towards political/social imperatives that are unjust and simply exploiting wider society. Climate research is an enormous topic that doesn't neatly form into a single entity, although the relationship between geographical climate and weather is brilliant for short term weather modelling, it has no real influence on planetary climate in general or in detail.

Of all the conclusions that I enjoy the most because it is so close to understanding, is how we appreciate our motion within a solar system structure using modelling to help with observations, interpretation and conclusions as opposed to making predictions. Because of satellite imaging, it is possible to partition the use of daily rotation and its influences on the surface like the day/night cycle from the orbital components of our planet and its effects on the surface.

https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

It is simply a matter of putting the faster motion of the Earth in context of the slower moving Jupiter at opposite sides of the stationary/central Sun. People will begin to enjoy how modelling makes appreciation of our surrounding enjoyable instead of that dull, sullen mess academics would have society buried in.

Short term weather modelling in also enjoyable, however, when weather is quiet there is always modelling for interpretation to become engaged with and that is what this is all about-

Galileo — 'You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself.'

Yesterday's men and their dire predictions are not worth dealing with when it is much easier to promote observations/modelling/ interpretations for enjoyable conclusions which refer the Earth's motions to planetary climate and planetary climate down into geographical climate and weather.

No need to engage with people I do not need to whereas those who actually like short term weather modelling for specific events locally or worldwide would find an easy transition to planetary climate provided they maintain a disciplined use of their interpretations, observations and imagination.

The attempt to create even more dire predictions than the normal proponents for climate change modelling sent these guys running from the forum and others to change their name least they be associated with the previous thread on climate modelling. I shrug as there is nothing I haven't seen before yet I can't be expected to deal with those who hold icons of the forum to be an authority when they are as flighty as can be and therefore fickle and unpredictable.

I still think gauging a purported 1.5 degree rise against no definite baseline for planetary temperature, but rather pointing in the direction of the industrial/pre-industrial era juncture is an amazing swindle, after all, the body is considered to have a fever once a baseline temperature for the body is breached.

People can do better, they really can.

I wouldn't be upset on account of RTE, it is more like those early morning infomercials selling wider society on more taxes along with the usual pictures of wildfires and so on.

The real issue is the limits of modelling where short term weather events as a result of geographical climate such as Ireland's maritime climate is perfectly fine and instructs and entertains contributors to this forum in matters of predictions. Nobody has a problem with that and it should be welcomed.

Planetary climate is an altogether different matter as it encompasses geographical climate, yet it is referenced to the motions of the planet in a Sun-centred system. Computer modelling can be directed towards explaining this area of research rather than attempting to make dire weather predictions look like dire climate predictions.

The RTE broadcaster and some meteorologists are yesterday's people, they had their moment with their dire predictions based on computer simulations, but with a society coming out of the presence of the virus, researchers are needed to take a more expansive view of the Earth science with all its positive attributes.

If the human body and its intricate inter-connecting systems were the Earth, the modellers would have the human body constantly dying and constantly lamenting its demise. Time to bring some fresh air into planetary climate.

Insulting people is beneath me and besides, it is counter-productive to the issues which many are well capable of dealing with when calmer heads prevail and interpretation becomes the focus.

The meteorologists announce that this is the first day of meteorological Spring and this is exceptionally unhelpful when appreciating the Equinox and Solstice points which define the seasons and how the annual cycle divided by hemispheres and across latitudes is reliant on the same principles which govern the 24 hour day. There is no daily astronomical noon as opposed to meteorological noon and neither should this recent notion be applied to the annual cycle, what observers do know is that temperatures continue to rise after 12 noon and begin to fall after 3 PM or so. The same with the annual cycle where midsummer happens on the June Solstice on this island, it rises for a few months before beginning to fall around August.

Ireland's climate is geographical with influences from the Atlantic ocean and the nearby continent and this is weather. Ireland's climate as a function of planetary climate is the rate of change in daylight/darkness conditions as the planet rotates and orbits the central Sun and that is defined by the relationship of the planet's inclination to the orbital plane.

The doom merchants have had their day so now it is time to consider planetary climate in terms of dynamics. The recovery of the fact that one 24 hour day is also one complete rotation of the Earth is a good start and that there are a thousand rotations in a thousand 24 hour days whereas celestial sphere theorists disagree-

" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are days in the year" NASA /Harvard

Yes, the analogy, crude as it is, represents the single rotation of the planet over the course of a year. See what you can do with it even if it is tricky at the beginning and, if possible, move the issue forward using what talents you have.

Although daily rotation swamps the orbital one visually apart from the North/South poles, the expanding and decreasing circles with the North/South poles at their centre tend to highlight the separate rotation as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth. In this respect, the constant orientation of the Earth to Polaris has more value for the orbital motion of the Earth to prevent observers from 'tilting' the planet.

Copernicus originally got the motion of the North poles in an annual circle right but sacrificed it due to the prevalent Ptolemaic framework in his time-

" The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's centre always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small circles about centres [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand Orb's axis. " Copernicus

When Copernicus talks about the Earth's centre remaining in the plane of the ecliptic, it extends to a separate Equator where the North/South poles are surface points that turn parallel to the Earth's orbital plane. The polar latitudes simply act as beacons for a separate rotation and therefore separate orbital North/South poles and an orbital Equator with reducing speeds from equator to poles just like daily rotation.

The issue is hard enough to explain without opposition from those who are modelling for predictions only but I truly believe there are contributors here well able to work with fluid dynamics for interpretative purposes only. In a world where there is a lot of anxiety, this topic shouldn't draw reactions the way it does..

Sometimes a few additional clues provide those who have come to understand that a tilting Earth is not the answer to the seasons insofar as any change in orientation due to a perceived variation in tilt would register in the change in orientation to the background stars while that orientation remains constant throughout an orbital circuit. To save the appearances, an old solar system research term, the answer is to apply two surface rotations to the Earth with daily rotation clearly visible while the surface rotation due to the way the Earth orbits the Sun is really only discernible in isolation at the North/South poles.

That would represent the orientation of the Earth on the December Solstice with the Sun to the left.

The Earth's centre coincident with the orbital plane is denoted by the arrow Z passing from the Tropic of Capricorn through the centre of the Earth and passing on to the Tropic of Cancer. On the June Solstice, the arrow Z passes from the Tropic of Cancer through the centre of the Earth on on to the Tropic of Capricorn. The North/South poles turn parallel to this (orbital) Equator as these are the only locations on the surface with a net zero rotational velocity as a function of daily rotation.

A more simplified diagram is possibly more productive in some ways without the temperature inputs-

The North Pole turns in a circle around the broken line over the course of an orbit as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth. The diagram above represents the Earth on the December Solstice as the daily rotational Equator is below the Earth's orbital plane on the side furthest from solar radiation.

Whether this helps or not I do know, but there are a lot of modifications needed to move away from the idea of a tilting Earth for seasonal weather or, in the other direction, to define planetary climate correctly.