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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    There are reports that it could be MLRS - pretty nasty - several saying under Geneva convention constitutes a war crime. Seems very intense and targeting of civilians. I find the OSINT reporters good as they try to be as accurate as possible and will correct themselves if incorrect.


    The above is a very good source - he has been covering this over the last number of months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Its a very very interesting video. Gives a great view of the bigger picture over the longer term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Really good discussion on Triggernometry about Ukraine. One of the presenters is Russian and has Russian speaking relatives in Ukraine. Can also be found as a podcast to listen to on the go.

    https://youtu.be/dNnq8gMAE-8



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    You'd imagine it's swings and roundabouts.

    Increased Rates are good if you have money on deposit , but not so much if you have a mortgage or a loan.

    On some levels it protects the value of deposits in the face of the collapse of the rouble , but any debts are in a fairly rotten state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    There are a number of YOUTUBE channels and twitter accounts providing videos of attacks, including a supposed use of Thermobaric's last night - the footage all seems genuine, but the videos are often mislabeled - these are from civilian sources and these people (who are in a terrible situation) would not be able to tell what is happening, except that they are under attack. It may have seemed as though it was carpet bombing to citizens (who we should commend for their bravery in providing footage of what is going on)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well, we know what the claims will be if it's verified that civilians are now being targetted: that if civilians are determined to volunteer & raise arms against the "liberators", the Russians will simply treat these civvies as enemy combatants. With all that entails. It could be the thing that finally breaks the spine of morale in the Ukrainians but if the videos are real it's a further sinking into the moral abyss by Putin & co. Not that they'll care.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mass targeting of civilians to break their morale doesn't exactly have a stellar track record.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, but in the recording you could hear their conversation before responding. I dunno, it all seemed a bit too Hollywood for me.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Thinking it was staged seems significantly more "Hollywood" to me.

    It is a military communications facility. The idea that things are recorded in it is not exactly all that out there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ok, it wasn't staged. RIP to the 13 soldiers I guess... I mean, either it happened or it didn't?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,442 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    They can fire various types of rocket. The cluster munitions they used are now outlawed afaik. Same goes for their rapid minelaying capability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    I am former military and have experienced extreme war, so I don't want to comment along with the simplistic ideas of good v bad guys or any bravado stuff! n

    But I can personally vouch that complete battle myths are fed to the media, presumably to keep up support back home, keep it all simple.

    Don't want to go into precise detail, but for example I can recall shaking my head reading a week old newspaper who's main banner headline had a similar supposed 'elite' warrior group performing super scary stuff. That journalist who supplied that article was embedded, but never was on that front, so they were either making that total Bullshit up for sensation, personally for fun or kudos, or imo more likely was purposely fed it to go print for consumption back home and abroad.

    Only problem for those reading back home about the supposed superman super scarey achievements of their supposed super warriors- was, I along with a group had just picked up those week old newspapers and supplies along with the very same units of supposed 'super scary warriors' to take them to the front, where they had not yet even been to.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What on earth are you on about.

    The event happened. The interaction with the Russians happened. Ukraine lost contact with the personnel on the island after a period of shelling. At this point, clearly, Ukraine decided to make a story out of it and leaned heavily on the assumption the personnel were dead. Instead, it would appear Russia has taken them prisoner. I have no idea why the find the recording so suspicious or difficult to believe.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    "Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, its unnatural dislocation, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war, because now brothers, separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies, are still shooting at each other, but there will be no more Ukraine as anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, if we had allowed the temporary division to take hold for centuries, then we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants for allowing the disintegration of the Russian land"

    If it is genuine, which i actually think it is - it just proves once again that Russia is an out and out dictatorship, and that its people are lied to as par for the course - also, it cited that this came from Reuters - which is unbelievable. This is North Korean style nonsense now. Nothing that comes out of Russia can be taken seriously (IMHO this has been the case for some time - but now, this is rather beyond doubt)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I find it hard to believe because it's difficult to believe what either side says during a war, during any war, so it's completely justifiable to be suspicious of stories like this. Both sides are obviously engaged in selling a narrative that suits them. This is completely normal and expected during a war. This has been true as long as war has been recorded.

    You should always be skeptical of such stories.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Post removed. Please use feedback if you have complaints about any part of this site. Any more discussion of other fora here may result in bans.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Only if you're a tinfoil hat moron who is ignoring multiple and independent sources from western media in theatre, individual Ukrainian public representatives and correspondents, intelligence agencies and NGOs alike all saying essentially the same thing.

    I don't deny that a fog of war always exists, but I'm going to go ahead and form an opinion from the sources I trust and not, in the face of a fascist invader, say 'well, there's two sides to every story!!'

    Jesus wept lad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    So officially, Putin's Russia is threatening Nuclear War, because of Liz Truss

    Also Sky reporting further enhancement of Nuclear Deterrence forces in Russia (so they have moved their alert upward yet again)

    I do think we have to consider whether this man is at all rational. Up to now i have resisted considering this. Morally the man is repugnant (lets be frank, he always was) - but moral repugnance does not necessarily imply mental instability. - But this is all very worrying now. To say this is an over-reaction is not sufficient imho

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Now is the moment for a Coup. A bullet in the head for him, a takeover by the Military commanders, a move by Lavrov and some other slightly more sane cabinet members, whatever. But let's have it and soon.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Your big flaw in that theorising is that a saner option than Putin would take over. A power grab may occur, but it may not be out of a sense of morality or concern for the globe, but simply sensing weakness.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I hope that something comes of the talks. Even though it seems exceedingly unlikely that anything will come of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    A terrifying thought - tbh we just have to hope that this is all bluster and nonsense - Effectively we have to hope that the Kremlin doesnt believe its own propaganda - the alternative is that this could escalate dramatically, and who knows where it would end. I found the mere mention of Nukes to be baffling yesterday and was genuinely pleased that the West/NATO didnt rise to the occasion - the effective response was that Russia knows how deterrence works- and understands the consequences involved so


    Doing this again today, doubling down on the Nuclear threat - it just is not rational at all - it makes no sense at all (unless you entertain the possibility that it is all to pressure the Ukrainians? which i cannot believe)

    Very worrying

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Hes already scapegoated one army commander, hopefully the rest are already starting to look at each other and ask questions



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This is the problematic side of the severe sanctions.

    If Russia's economy is reduced to ruin, then this is going to breed a lot of resentment among common people and leave a big space for the wrong sort of person to step in and whip up anti-western rhetoric in the years ahead. We've seen this happen before, obviously.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're not wrong, but isn't anti western rhetoric the status quo in Russian media?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The "obvious" solution is massive investment and support once Putin and the primary responsible subordinates are gone. But it will be unpalatable for many.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've seen some of what I'd charitably describe as the Tucker Carlsons of Russia, and if you think Putin leans in with an anti-Western agenda ... he's a pussycat compared with these wingnuts. Popular wingnuts at that. I have no problem imagining a version of Russia that would take hyper-conservative, nationalist rhetoric and apply it through military policy.



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