Energy infrastructure

Capt'n Midnight · 25-02-2022 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118690785#Comment_118690785

Strong and stable ? Lots of dips because nuclear isn't as dependable as it's fans suggest.

josip · 25-02-2022 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118690920#Comment_118690920

Regular dips like that in a graph would suggest a periodic influence, like lower weekend demand, rather than unplanned outages.

I know nothing about power grids so I could be completely wrong, but I do look at lots of graphs for work.

bk · 25-02-2022 2:28pm

Whatever about Nuclear and the Germans being too dependent on gas, it is insane that the Germans left Gazprom operate their gas storage facilities in Germany!

They should immediately take control of those facilities.

BTW The Germans mostly use Gas for home heating, they don’t use much for electricity.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-02-2022 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118691049#Comment_118691049

The magenta line on top shows the decrease in demand at the weekends.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-02-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118691060#Comment_118691060

Here's intermittent renewables on the German grid over the last year.

The red areas are where they've fallen below 12.5GW

Red areas are how much dispatchable power you'd need to support a grid with roughly 3x wind + 3x solar.

Edit - graph daily average

Capt'n Midnight · 25-02-2022 4:21pm

Seasonal variation in the Significant Wave Height - peak power is around the time of year when solar can drops off.

Total Wave Height is the sum of Sea (wind driven waves) and Swell (waves from distant storms).

Harvesting the swell means capturing wind energy from a different time or different areas.

At present it's too expensive to build stuff that will stand up to the weather.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-02-2022 10:09pm

Oops. You have to zoom into a single month before it stops doing a daily average. This is for July a calm month.

Black line is 12,5GW Germany has roughly 3x wind + 3x solar of that installed. (mostly onshore wind)

Calm and dark at times in January.

RandomViewer · 25-02-2022 11:59pm

Will bio-diesel become a thing again?

RandomViewer · 26-02-2022 12:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118691160#Comment_118691160

Most expensive electricity in Europe, guessing the immersion has a constantly changing access code in most German homes

Capt'n Midnight · 26-02-2022 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118694583#Comment_118694583

It's had a bad reputation. Waste chipper oil is fine but there isn't a lot of it. Way back a German study found that the fertilizer, farming and energy inputs used as much fossil fuel as it displaced.

And a lot of modern biodiesel uses palm oil which means draining bogs and releasing ~120 years worth of CO2 savings and making orangutangs homeless.

Energy to fuel might be a better option.

Capt'n Midnight · 26-02-2022 1:09am

solar might be the cheapest way to power pumped storage for most of February

26-02-2022 2:10am

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/25/europe-s-reliance-on-russian-fossil-fuels-may-push-it-towards-energy-independence-says-ger

What do ye reckon, will Russian actions in Ukraine speed up the transition to renewables across Europe in order to reduce the stranglehold it has over fossil fuel supplies?

eire4 · 26-02-2022 8:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118695142#Comment_118695142

in the short term obviously it is a problem but hopefully just as with our security hopefully this is a big kick in the rear to all in the EU to get us off fossil fuels and any need for Russia energy asap.

cnocbui · 26-02-2022 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118695142#Comment_118695142

No, but some countries in Europe with populations containing intelligent people, will be fast tracking the approval and building of LNG terminals and recommissioning of Coal plants and mines, if possible. This is a shot in the head for renewables, not the arm.

Were I the Prime Minister of Australia, I would be passing immediate legislation directing LNG exporters to immediately stop sending shipments to China and to re-direct them to Europe. Last year Australia exported 30.7 million tonnes of LNG to China - 40% of their total imports.

Talk about killing two birds with one stone. Presuming Japan uses some of the LNG they import from Oz for moving electrons, they could do their bit by restarting their nukes and allowing Oz to divert even more LNG to Europe. I don't think world leaders are remotely doing enough thinking on how to seal Russia off and cripple the pricks

cnocbui · 27-02-2022 1:54pm

I do so love being proved right. This is twice in one day!

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/germany-to-get-two-new-lng-terminals-in-response-to-ukraine-conflict/ar-AAUmZLz

Mod: Edit - <snip> Politics is that way >>>>>>>

Markcheese · 28-02-2022 11:17am

I can't see many exporting nations rerouting LNG carriers or shipments to Europe , there's no infrastructure - yet -

It'll need ports and docking facilities , regassification plants and then some level of gas storage , which is all doable but not today or tomorrow ,

It could be done quickly if there's a spare floating facility around - but they're going to be few and far between...

I think fro. An Irish point of view gas storage would be a good start ..

Capt'n Midnight · 28-02-2022 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707418#Comment_118707418

Japan did send surplus LNG to Europe ahead of the invasion Lithuania setup an LNG terminal a while back so the wouldn't be dependent on Russian gas. There's plenty of LNG terminals in the UK so no need for us to have our own.

While Germany may be setting up LNG terminals, they will be increasing renewables. So expect more EU grid interconnection. Which means in future we can re-import some of the wind and solar we send to the EU. Being further north-west means we'll be producing it late during the summer.

Markcheese · 28-02-2022 1:57pm

I know there's an LNG plant in Lithuania ,and there is at least on being built in Poland , and as you said the uk , but no where near enough capacity to compensate for Russian gas ... Still every little counts - and a mild breezy spring would help with more renewables -

More expensive gas, means it makes more sense to build more renewables and burn less gas .. which is the Irish plan anyway - more gas capacity but using it less ..

gjim · 28-02-2022 3:31pm

It seems that there are about 21 large LNG terminals in Europe - with a combined capacity is about 230 BCM/year (billion cubic meters). About 17 further large terminals are in planning. Googling says that Europe imports 150 to 190 BCM/year from Russia so in theory the new LNG terminal capacity could conceivably allow the EU to stop importing Russia gas and use Qatari and US LNG as a replacement.

In practice, it won't be so simple - lots of new infrastructure will be required - transmission networks will have to be reconfigured. Also such a switch would mean that it would be difficult to also meet the natural growth in demand expected until the mid 2030s. I believe pipeline gas is quite cheap compared to LNG or at least the price is set differently using longer term contracts. Finally, I don't believe there is enough LNG supply globally at the moment to divert such a quantity of LNG to Europe - at least until Qatar completes the $28B expansion of their LNG export capacity.

While I support the use of NG as part of a decarbonising electricity strategy (not that there are many options right now to achieve the 2030 goals), I really think Europe needs to ween itself off the consumption of natural gas in the home - over 40% of European homes depend on NG for heating. Both to reduce CO2 (environment damaging) and NOx (human health damaging) emissions that happen during combustion and also the to reduce the amount of methane leaking into the air from handing NG in general. Without the demand for home heating/cooking (45% of consumption in Germany alone), there would be no need to buy from Russia at all.

bk · 28-02-2022 4:59pm

So it begins:

Germany Brings Forward Goal of 100% Renewable Energy to 2035

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/germany-aims-get-100-energy-renewable-sources-by-2035-2022-02-28/

I’m certain we will see most European countries follow suit. Energy crisis always trigger a rush to newer technology. Keep in mind that the reason the French went all in on Nuclear power in the 80’s was a result of the Oil Crisis in the 70’s

28-02-2022 11:07pm

Germany getting in early on potential green hydrogen production plans here in Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/germany-signals-interest-in-ireland-s-wind-energy-infrastructure-1.4813527

Birdnuts · 01-03-2022 2:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709454#Comment_118709454

I'm sure it will be as successful as their dumping of nuclear in favour of windmills has been🙄

bk · 01-03-2022 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712005#Comment_118712005

Well given that wind generates over twice as much electricity as Nuclear already in Germany and hell even solar already generates almost as much (80%) as Nuclear, I'd say highly successful. Hell even biomass isn't that far behind!

BTW unsurprisingly there is some talk now in Germany of them extending the operation of their existing Nuclear plants for a few more years until they build out more renewables. There are seemingly some big question marks about doing it, but if they can do it safely, I'd fully support it.

bk · 01-03-2022 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711273#Comment_118711273

That is fantastic news. It is increasingly looking like not only are we well on our way to generating most of our electricity with renewables, but looks like we are in a very strong position to blow right past it and become a net exporter of green energy.

Great for the environment, great for our security of supply and great for our economy.

gjim · 01-03-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712843#Comment_118712843

I believe they've said they will consider keeping the existing nuclear going. It's tiny btw - 3 reactors with a total capacity of just over 4GW. Contrast that to the renewables they're committed to adding: 55GW of on-shore wind, 20GW of off-shore wind and 140GW of solar PV. Even adjusting by capacity factor, nuclear would represent a tiny fraction of the carbon-free sources of electricity.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-03-2022 1:56pm

German renewables this month vs total demand. Red areas are where output dropped below 30GW ~ 50% of average demand. Which gives an idea of when dispatchable power would have been needed if they had twice as much renewables.

Nuclear should be churning out just under 4.1GW 24/7 but it dips from time to time , as low as 2.9GW on 9th Jan and 3.3GW on 6th Feb. In December nuclear should have been outputting 7.9GW but dipped to 6.8GW on the 19th before going back to full power.

Also from the figures it looks like Biomass has provided a steady 4.4GW 24/7 since the start of the year. (It was 5GW last year, I'm not sure what changed there, regardless it's output was more stable than nuclear.)

RandomViewer · 01-03-2022 4:55pm

The irony isn't lost when you see the communications clinic posters going on about workplace bullying

bk · 01-03-2022 8:03pm

Things moving in the right direction:

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0301/1283726-climate-committee/

Wind supplied 53% of our electricity last month (and actually 55% of all renewables).

"On the windiest days, the wholesale cost of electricity plunged by three quarters, as compared to the least windy days."

01-03-2022 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715698#Comment_118715698

Again, resourcing issues are being highlighted as a significant cause of delays and therefore increase costs to the consumers

Justin Moran said it took 24 months to get a foreshore licence, which is needed to carry out surveys to see if a windfarm may be viable.

After that, getting planning permission and facing a possible judicial review could take another 24 months, he noted.

Meanwhile, the UK can promise investors that they will have a foreshore licence issued in just 24 weeks, he revealed.

"People have a right to comment and object", Mr Moran emphasised, and called for "resourcing the [planning] system so it works rapidly and effectively".

Ben D Bus · 01-03-2022 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712858#Comment_118712858

I always do my best not to be cynical but Ireland is always great at big plans and blueprints. Absolute rubbish at delivery of big projects.

There's a lot of planning appeals, protests and judicial reviews between plan and delivery.

Energy infrastructure

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