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Amnesty scheme for undocumented migrants in Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    In the history of this planet, there has never existed a time where this earth of ours was without…

    war

    tyranny

    weather / climate problems

    earthquakes, natural catastrophe

    poverty

    injustice

    etc…never free of the above

    And we won’t or it’s unlikely because of the way the world is divided up, human nature, human vulnerability, things outside human control or influence ….these things that they’ll be eradicated fully ? Never.

    so the haves will always be expected to bail out the have nots ? sacrifice their/our wellbeing…

    From 2017-2020, around 17,000 people were granted asylum here.

    an average of 5700 per year

    that an average of or a possible average of if you are to use these reliable trends of 57,000 people per decade…

    cant sustain that and still provide the best to our citizens… impossible..

    If we are to add an amnesty in addition ? We can’t….

    we’ll never see a second metro line or other important capital projects funded… just not happening..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I am seriously doubting your figure of 17000 people being granted leave to stay in Ireland over 3 years.

    I'm fact, I doubt very much that there were 17000 asylum seekers over a 3 year period in Ireland. Where are you getting these figures?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those numbers don't align with those recently posted so I'm not sure if they're correct. Have you a source you can share?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I have to ask why make up so much rubbish if you can't back it up?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not your secretary. You have a question about the posts in the thread then go read the posts in the thread.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Also interesting how few direct flights there are to Ireland from those countries. So for most Ireland isn't the first port in a Storm, its a choice. Especially amongst those with high rejection rates.

    I wonder were a number from those actually suffer from war flown straight here on humanitarian missions etc, hence the higher success rate. As it well should, genuine cases need help



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I did not ask if you were my secretary. I asked you to back up your claims of the "many" posters objecting to "folks fleeing war from other countries (Afghanistan, Syria, Libya etc). Its as if only certain wars in certain places with refugees of a certain ethnicity are deemed worthy"

    Something not surprisingly you've utterly failed to do. Fine but it's always best to lay off with the lazy generalisations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    Ahhh shure you know didn't they try that already with the e-voting machines and they were simple to hack and they were a sham. Its the Bureaucrats that run Ireland from Brussels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Yes. Those who are preselected from UNHCR camps typically have a 100% success rate. For instance, several hundred Syrians were approved from the Moria refugee camp on the Greek islands within that last couple of years. These people have been background checked and their narrative vetted, before being flown to Ireland. I don’t believe anybody has an issue accepting a limited number of legitimate cases of this nature annually. Similarly, my sense is that people are open to accommodating those Ukrainians who decide to shelter here.

    However, what does sit uneasily with many Irish people is the blatant subversion of the asylum system by spurious claimants. This has been happening since the late ‘90s, with numbers peaking in 2001 and 2002, when the jus soli citizenship loophole was ruthlessly exploited, particularly by Nigerians. In recent times, there has been an unexpected spike in applications from Albania and Georgia, the overwhelming majority of which have proved to be unfounded.

    It’s clear that attempts to abuse the international protection system are not confined to a particular ethnicity or racial group. Spurious applicants come from very diverse origins. Most people want them processed rapidly and removed if their claim proves unfounded, regardless of their background. The disingenuous attempts of several posters to insinuate that this thinking is racially motivated, is both false and disgusting. Frankly, it’s simply par for the course for a particularly vocal poster on this thread.

    Last point I will make is that the winds of change have started blowing back against irregular migration across Europe. Let’s look at some of our EU partners. Denmark has set a target of zero asylum seekers. Macron is amping up the rhetoric against migration, due to competition from political forces on the right. The Visegrad 4 have been steadfast in their refusal to admit migrants. Anybody who doesn’t believe that Brexit was underpinned by concerns around migration, is living in a fantasy. Even the self proclaimed ‘humanitarian superpower’ Sweden has tightened migration channels.

    Ireland typically regresses to the mean as change sweeps across Europe. We will quickly fall into line. We just happen to have two particularly poor and shortsighted politicians with their hands on the levers of powers at the moment. McEntee and O’Gorman are temporary figures. As the number of dubious asylum claims grows, due to pull factors like ‘own door accommodation’ and amnesties, sanity will prevail and measures will be put in place to stem the flow again. The future politicians who implement these policies will of course be roundly condemned by some of the edge cases who inhabit these threads. However, as the 2004 birthright citizenship referendum demonstrated, the majority of the Irish people support decisions grounded in logic, that supports their best interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Eh what? The regularisation scheme isnt permanent

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Are all Ukrainians white? Like the triple jumper Sheryf-El-Sheryf?

    Like I said above, a disingenuous allegation grounded on nothing. Pretty standard for you though, isn’t it Joey?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Obvious hail mary attempt to pull the racism card is obvious. Maybe you missed this part of Hamachi's post? "In recent times, there has been an unexpected spike in applications from Albania and Georgia, the overwhelming majority of which have proved to be unfounded." So chancing their arm then. Even Vradakar namechecked them in this context. And last time I looked Albanians and Georgians were White. The latter are quite literally "caucasians".

    Black Albanians...


    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,994 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What are the guaranteed positives for Irish citizens?

    I can think of many guaranteed negatives, it would be great if we could get a list of positives and compare.

    Illegal immigrants that is, I think its great we are helping out ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Theres a real war going on now.

    Same as there was a real war going on in Syria at the time and desperate people needed help.

    It's all the rest piggybacking in on claims they were caught up in it that's bogus taking from the resources we have.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep and we can note as we speak when a real war kicks off the demographics of refugees fleeing it are the same as they've always been throughout history. More women and kids and the elderly, men are nearly always in the minority. Compare and contrast with the other 'refugees' that were coming into the EU over the last decade plus. Boats being picked up in the Med where you could play 'Where's Wally' but with women.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Ah I forgot about Joey n didn't cop him gone from here. Maybe he's just busy helping the travellers cleaning up their campsites!!

    Playing the colour card very early Joey, I'm a tad disappointed! If it's all u got , it'll have to do!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Eventually Ireland's membership of the CTA and even the EU will mean there will have to be an intervention as the siituation gets materially out of hand. And Ireland is the weakest link in the chain.

    But a lot of damage can be done by the likes of McEntee, Varadkar and O'Gorman in the meantime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    ive nothing against these people on a personal level , nor do i care if they are brown skinned , black or asian , if they were pasty Icelandic , It would be the same if they illegally came here in an attempt to circumnavigate our visa application laws - process

    the reality is resources are finite , beit housing , health care services , public services of other kinds , we cant use a magic wand and provide all the needs of an infinite number of people

    as such tribes have emerged throughout history and those tribes had to prioritise their own ahead of outsiders , thats not racial purity ideology , its just pragmatism , its such reductive thinking and rationale for liberal progressives to portray opposition to DP and the recent Roderic o Gorman plans as base xenophobia and unthinking racism but i suppose smearing opponents is quicker and easier and unfortunately often effective



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    I noticed the "fit, healthy, military aged men need to make the arduous journey and then the women follow them once they're secured safety" bullshit narrative doesn't seem to be what's happening in the Ukraine. Seems to be women, children and the elderly leaving and men staying to fight for their country. Strange that.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pointed out to you previously, it depends on the type of conflict.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you not realize that Ukrainian men are barred from leaving or are you just ignoring that fact to get your dig in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Ukraine borders Poland (529km long), Slovakia (97km long) and Hungary (137kms long). If male refugees wanted to leave there is plenty of room for them to get out.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No doubt some will, but it doesn't change the fact that men are currently barred from leaving Ukraine therefore there is nothing strange about women, children and the elderly leaving and men staying despite your attempt to assign some other meaning to this fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Listening to Sky News there on the Ukraine situation and it's interesting that even in the midst of the current crisis, the UK parliament/Government still recognises that there are limits and controls that need to be respected when it comes to a response around refugees.

    They have made concessions to their policies but still subject to security checks and time limits.

    We could certainly take a cue here.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's weird though, I haven't see a huge amount of 30-year-old looking 15 year old boys. Nor fit and healthy people who look like they're in their 40 claiming to be over 60.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    We certainly could but all those businesses and business people and builders foaming at the cash register at the proposition of a population spike….



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any Ukrainian coming into Ireland will also be subject to security checks and visa controls. They will have a certain amount of time to apply for visas once here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    McEntee's work on migrant rights has pushed her to the top of the list of contenders, with Harris, to replace Leo Varadkar should he get the heave due to the ongoing criminal investigation




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Who is going to be sentenced to prison for this?

    Which law was broken and what are the penalties?

    The WRC inspector said that after the inspection, applegreen changed their proceedures. And the judge noted that the majority of those staff without valid employment permits, had expired permits.

    Not every conviction deserves a prison sentence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,009 ✭✭✭conorhal


    LOL, you can keep literal slaves in Ireland like the Clondalkin takeawy owner that employed an illegal, seized his passport and paid him 50 cents an hour with no overtime for an 80hr week.... and the government didn't even prosecute him, in fact he went to the courts to fight a ruling that he owed his slave back pay and the courts ruled that Mr Amjad Hussein didn't have to even pay the guy that slept on the foor of his takeaway because he was here illegally. Fortunately I see that ruling was over-turned, but it took a 6yr legal battle to do so.

    This is our immigration system in practice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,304 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    That offence started 2002 till 2009, surely you can find something more current.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    No mention of prison but a more substantial fine should be paid for his.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,009 ✭✭✭conorhal


    I'm sure I could and you're free to look, it's just the example that stuck out in my mind because it was so unjust, but it's hardly likely to be an uncommon occurance since we do little to no immigration enforcement here. I worked with a guy that was illegal and yet somehow managed to get into the country and hired by a multi-national, he only 'departed the company never to be mentioned again' after one of the girls in the office idly googled his name and discoved he had scarpered from the UK becuse he was facing sexual assault charges... Again, our immigration system in practice.

    The reality is that there are probably thousands of people like the Clondalkin cheff working in takeaways, as fishermen as nannies and in the sex industry and you're not going to hear about it because nobody wants to lift the lid on how our immigration policies feed into literal slavery.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thankfully now thousands of illegal immigrants who have been at the mercy of unscrupulous employers can now be afforded legal protections.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would expect that the WRC have given them hefty fines, for breaches of employment laws.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ukrainian folk to get special refugee status which will effectively treat them like EU citizens, allowing them to live and work without restrictions


    RTE news : Ukrainians to get special refugee status here - Coveney





  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I see Coveney mentioned Ireland getting 20k Ukrainians.

    Maybe we should use this as a chance to change tactics and start deporting the 17k undocumented.

    That way it makes very little difference to the living standards while accomodating genuine people. Win win for all. 17k spoofers gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,938 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Another new Dublin Hotel closes to accommodate asylum seekers.

    Nowhere in the planning documents was this mentioned of course. The local community thought it would be a hotel, jobs, tourists, investment, instead it will be another nearly 400 bed slum in the city center which is already affected by huge social problems. Another community done over, not consulted.

    Imagine if the planning application was for a 400 bed 9 storey asylum seeker accommodation instead of a hotel.

    Another community conned.

    Just last week we had the hotel near the airport shut it's doors.

    As for the asylum seeker spike...tell people they just have to stick it out a couple of more years and they get their own keys to their own pad. The lack of basic common sense, the disconnect from reality is alarming.

    Post edited by Kermit.de.frog on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Pretty much. What’s the endgame to all this? Buy every hotel in the state to house asylum seekers, a high % of whom have no legitimate claim to being here? Continue using Irish tax payers money to facilitate chancers?

    Zero planning, zero logic, and zero benefits to this country and its people. It’s the product of having truly inadequate people at the helm, in the shape of McEntee and O’Gorman. The only positive is that the true extent of their incompetence will reveal itself as the ‘system’ is overwhelmed. The question is how much damage can they inflict on this country before they are handed their arses?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Will they be handed their arses though. Just walk off into the sunset.

    Big pension in hand.

    Rules for being incompetent and or corruption need to have a lot more severe consequences in this country. Especially when it comes to being a TD or minister.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,829 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    I tell you, I'd be fairly harsh on any forms of illegal immigration to the country and equally bogus asylum seekers. Some would find that harsh and try to label me.

    But I'll tell you, I'm very proud of how our state is removing barriers to the people fleeing Ukraine to be able to come here and find support comfort and safety as much as is possible.

    And this is exactly what the asylum system was supposed to be. I'm fully supportive of the government plans to open our door and bring them in.

    If I had space in the house I'd take in a few if it was necessary but I don't have the space. That doesn't mean I won't get involved locally and help out if/ when the people start arriving.

    These are the type of thing we should be opening the door and rolling out the red carpet for. Genuine refugees fleeing war.

    We should not be wasting resources on every chancer who can pool together 5k to get here and spoof their way to being impossible to remove. If we were more diligent in this regard, just think of how much the state could really do to help Ukrainians and others seeking genuine refuge from wherever they're fleeing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    True. We all recognise legitimate asylum claims from Ukraine in this instance.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    So the price of hotel rooms goes up because of the lessening of competition meaning less visitors coming to the city….

    less money being spent.

    so we are paying for the double whammy of accommodating and feeding these assylum seeking individuals but with all the numerous hotel rooms closed off to genuine visitors less visitors will be coming here to enjoy and contribute to their enjoyment and our economic wellbeing…

    Facilitating Undocumented in addition just means our coffers are being emptied quicker then getting filled almost, or at least that might happen..well a multibillion deficit is forecast for this year and next year…great.


    This country is Donald ducked



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    On about building modular homes on state land to accommodate the influx. Good to know that we can sort out other people and not our own with the housing crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,834 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Exactly… taxpayers needing a dig out, not get to the back of the Q but don’t come near the Q at all……



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