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Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    The poster actually stumbled upon a salient point, are landlords entrepreneurs? They're definitely in business, but we tend to associate entrepreneurs with financial risk taking and innovation. I'd argue that a great number of citizen landlords, myself included, would be quiet financially risk adverse. So fair enough, entrepreneurial failures, but I'm not sure people either set out to be successful at that or that being a small time landlord is conductive to same.

    Let me break it down for you. The yield on my property is 4.2% with the tax man taking roughly half. In the same time period the asset appreciate by 5% and I'd only pay a third of that in CGT. Positive income stream and capital appreciation factor into the business model. When Sinn Fein or the like propose that landlords never be able to sell at market rate a property, they effective zero out the Capital gain. If I have to choose between no rental income or no capital gains, well the smart move is to bank the 5% and move on. The single best time to make such a move is before the law changes. For me this has to be the reason so many landlords are selling up, it's not emotional, it's not due to bad tenants, it's due to hard cold financials.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    What is immoral about providing a service for over 40 years to people who need a home?



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove


    I never said that. LL leaving the market is the problem. small LL's



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭rightmove




  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    If you think it’s a money making machine, then clearly you’re not that familiar with it.

    I bought my apartment as a home. Thanks to the financial crisis I could not afford to sell it when I needed to move for work. I suppose I could have stayed put, stopped paying my mortgage and lived off social welfare. Instead I let it out and rented elsewhere myself. Usually the rent has covered costs but I haven’t made much profit from rental income. Now that house prices are up, I’ll sell as soon as my tenants leave but I don’t want to kick them out. Please, tell me again how lacking in morals and principles I am??!!



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  • Posts: 13,688 Flynn Vast Quintessence


    Unless you're unemployed, I'd say in the last three years you have earned more than me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Why don''t you have job for the last 3 years? You do understand landlords pay a lot in taxes that helps pay for people unable or not working? If somebody is earning more than you what is your problem with that?Not sure why you are so angry. Ignorance of how economics of the rental market is one thing but what is the anger about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭fliball123


    People want if for free or for a lot less then they are paying and the idea that someone else will pay more never enters the head. In order to fix the issues with property all government supports ie - HAP , FTB should be stopped and the way the housing list elevates those not working higher than those who work all need to be re-assessed. Sh1t like I dont have a big enough garden, or I am a 20 minute walk from mumsy, or I dont have a south facing garden being used as an excuse for not accepting a property while your on a housing list is the tail wagging the dog here. You can see by the sh1t that went on last night cuts to travel passes, tinkering with the fuel allowance but it is once again it is unbalance some people do not have decent public transport option so they are effectively paying more to cover the cost of this for others to avail. They should of cut the "supposedly temporary tax" USC then everyone would of got a bit of gravy and helped with spiraling costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Ah so it's not so much you have superior morals but rather you lack the means.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    This guy is either clueless, trolling, or both.



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  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Thestart


    You should be embarrassed after writing this. Unfortunately for you you won’t be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    of course they do but the reason they play the tune they do is its music to the ears of media and other left wing ideologues who view punishing landlords as being just as important as increasing rental supply

    SF are always aware of being outdone by those further left , the Ruth Coppingers and Richard Boyd Barrets of this world view letting property for return as inherently evil , as do many of the big voices on Twitter and even the mainstream media , the discourse around landlords in Ireland is as antagonistic as that towards drug dealers



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Ive three properties though one is a commercial one , of the two residentials I own , one is in a long term lease to Limerick city council so Ive no responsibility whatsoever , rent is lower than market rate but the yield is 12% due to having taken the risk of buying in a flood risk area ( significant flood defences erected in past five years though )

    the other is in the East of the country and the rent is below market rate but the family are such good tenants , I dont really mind , I considered buying more property a little over a year ago but instead invested in the IRES reit , dividend yield was over 4% when i purchased and stock is up circa 14% , with the kind of diversification I have in the REIT , I think i did the right thing , bought the commercial REIT HIBERNIA as well , that was yielding closet to 5% when I bought it



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik



    I recognize his style. Hes back :)

    He has been in the property threads for a while now predicting a crash. Keeps moving the date. You know him well :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    how do you feel about the 17% drop in share price in IRES so far this year?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DubCount


    If you are going to invest in any traded stock, you cant measure success in a 2 month timeframe. See what the 3-5 year capital gain/loss is like.

    A 17% reduction in the first 2 months of the year is also an indication of increased value for investors moving into REIT investments at the moment. Lets see if its still down 17% even 12 months from now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    down 10.49% in one year.

    down 16.18% in 5 years.

    You'd be better off putting it under your mattress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭TheWonderLlama


    I always thought the stock price was a fairly accurate barometer of the financial health of a company, but then again these are strange times.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Over the short term, absolutely not ,everything gets thrown out during a crisis like this



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    No because you collect no dividend with cash under a mattress, just dust


    Paper losses are irrelevant



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Fian


    Inflation is predicted to run at 4-6% over the next 2 years. Rent increases in RPZs will be capped at 2%. This constitutes rent decreases across the board in real (albeit not nominal) terms.


    This combined with increases in the value of the underlying asset which will run well above 2% means an ongoing annual reduction in yield. Which means inevitably we reach a point where better yields are available for the capital value of the equity in the property elsewhere. At which point it makes sense to sell up rather than continue to rent, especially since those alternative yields can probably be achieved at significantly less risk and less effort/hassle.


    So don't be surprised when the supply of rental accommodation continues to reduce.



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