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The Curious Case of Violet-Anne Wynne

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Let's be clear here, you are the one trying to make out calling her an effin ejit is horrifying.

    Based on your thread here devoted to hounding her and her family, its not believable. Its downright shameful in fact. You verbally abused the woman for years on this very thread and are doing so again. How better or worse effin ejit is compared to what you said about her, doesn't take away what you said about her. The baseless claims of mysogny you throw around does not take away from what you said about her. It is simply not credible that you care a jot about her in anyway outside of what mileage you can get by using her.

    Thats my only point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    All very true and if someone in FG said "you're an effin eejit" you wouldnt hear any bleating about mysogyny from the same quarters

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    You think jeering and mocking other victims of sf is a good move at this point francie ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I was mocking and jeering those who nominate because somebody who is formerly to be derided has now become politically useful.

    'Exploiting victims and alleged victims' in other words, which is obscene.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Only to be expected from that source. Sinn Fein's treatment of women has been consistently poor.

    It seems like this thread will die away as Sinn Fein seek to control the narrative.

    "any comment on the shock resignation of Violet-Anne Wynne was to be handled centrally by the party in Dublin."

    SF Central is stepping in on the issue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    This is kinda hilarious really. I am sure SF has more things to worry about than this thread. And a lot of the people challenging your obnoxious behaviour towards VAW are not SF supporters at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,288 ✭✭✭mikethecop




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,457 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Sinn Fein could have brought Violet-Anne onto live tv and killed her yet we would have Sinn fein supporters defending them saying she deserved it, Saying that Sinn Fein supporters are not criticising the party is pointless, especially on the internet

    The issue is that in 2022 it still seems for some political parties a women getting pregnant means she should be called an "you effin eejit" and then pushed out of her party. It again gives a view to what Sinn Fein will be like if they do get into government, will all women who work in public sector get criticised for getting pregnant? get pushed out of working?

    I am sure you would prefer to gloss over it and tell everyone to shut up and move on, that's the normal I see but in reality it's a topic that needs to be discussed.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    He's in court again , this time for driving with no Insurance.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are absolutely correct. The blase response ah but shure she was only called an "effin eejit" as if it was harmless banter has been eye-opening. The lack of understanding on this issue is scary, with one poster being so ignorant that his patriarchal approach was that it was ok because it was a woman who said it to another colleague. Bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Very strange opinion altogether, as you said it would suggest it is ok because it's a woman? like that is totally ridiculous and saying that is sexist. It's the sort of stupid comments you might have seen 30 years ago.

    To me it's not a surprise to see these comments from supporters, I don't think they actually believe them but they are so blinded with trying to defend SF at all cost they make all sorts of excuses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A very serious crime IMO. People all over Ireland have to take their children out onto the roads and we seem to think as a nation it is ok for all sorts of carry on, even admiring some clowns for not paying tax/insurance.

    That been said it has nothing to do with Violet Anne or her ability to do her job as a TD or her job in Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who said all this blanch?

    Like why do you do this...misrepresent?

    I have said it was rude and if it was done to bully someone, that bully should be gone.

    It also may have been harmless banter. You don't know and neither do I.

    What other posters are saying is that the charge of 'misogyny' is ludicrious coming from the person who started this thread. Something that can equally be said to a father or a mother may be many things, but 'misogyny' it ain't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You would be surprised what people think is relevant around here about politician's families.

    There was one fella who started a whole thread about FG being right-wing because ex-politician John Bruton's son being a member of a right-wing group and that this was somehow scandalous. We also have regular digs at Jennifer Carroll O'Neill's husband as well as the more recent digs in the media at Helen McEntee's husband.

    Given not a single one of those three examples involved criminal activity, I would think that this example deserves the greatest attention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Violet Anne has left Sinn Fein and made reference to this.

    How exactly could that be described as "harmless banter"?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It is not "harmless banter" because Violet Anne has made reference to it. To be harmless banter you need both people involved. This is bullying.

    The person who felt this was an ok comment to be made to a pregnant women really should be fired on the spot. Any company in the World would sack them straight away. Even if it was harmless banter, which to confirm this wasn't



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I know people who would call me an 'effin eejit' if I did something I hadn't planned. That is all I mean here. We don't know the situation or context.

    The person who said it has been accused of being 'misogynistic' without knowing the facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Sorry I don't understand what you mean? are you saying it is ok with workplace bullying?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You really don't get it. You cannot say things like that to a pregnant colleague. It is pure sexual harrassment, sexism and misogyny, and it doesn't matter whether the person saying it was male or female.

    No situation or context can make that all right to say.


    You say that because this is something that can equally be said to a father or mother that it can't be misogynistic. That is absolute nonsense. That you don't understand the difference between saying that to a male or female (remember, neither of them are parents yet which shows the poverty of the language you use) in that context says an awful lot about you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Say you’re female, in a new stressful job a couple of years. You unexpectedly find yourself pregnant and go to a senior colleague to inform her and her response is “you effin eegit”. Try for one minute to imagine how an upset, hormonal mother to be feels on hearing this from someone higher up the ranks than her? In any workplace it’s unacceptable. Harmless banter has no place in the workplace when dealing with such a sensitive issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Trying to pass off standard political party activities as 'sinister'. Every party has a HQ and a press officer. We know what happens when politicians speak off the cuff with no handlers. 'SF don't like white men' comes to mind :)

    There's no narrative outside of what VAW said and is not being stopped repeating. I trust on your road to Damascus you've sent her a heartfelt apology.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No. I am not. If it was bullying then they have to go.

    But the unnamed person also has a right to explain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    No they don't. You still say "if"? Violet Anne has confirmed what she was called and this is bullying.

    In any organisation it doesn't matter what bulls**t excuse the person in question comes up with, they would be fired on the spot.

    Do you think if a man came in and kissed a woman in the office without her permission he should be allowed to explain?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not in my experience. Both people would be asked for their version and a decision made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152



    Standard political party activities? Omerta instructions from the centre?

    As I said already, my criticism has always been of Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Most employers nowadays don't do kangaroo courts where the complainant is made face down the bully.

    Either the remark was made or it wasn't. If there is a conflict of evidence, the bully might escape with a warning, but if the remark is verified, they have to go. No versions, no context.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,761 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The proceedure:

    How to make an informal complaint

    Your employer should deal with your complaint immediately. The company can appoint a Contact Person to act as a first step for employees. The Contact Person would not be involved in investigating the complaint.

    Initial informal Process

    You should begin by making it clear to the person that you find their behaviour unacceptable and undermining. You could also put it in writing, if you prefer. Focus on what they have done (offending acts) and the effects it has on you.

    Your employer may have a Contact Person named in the anti-bullying policy, who can give you information on the process.

    The person responsible for managing the complaint should keep a brief written record of the issue and agreed outcomes and dates.

    Secondary informal process

    The secondary informal process can be used if the initial informal process is not successful or your employer thinks it is not appropriate for the seriousness of the complaint.

    Your employer can nominate a separate person to investigate the complaint. This person should not be the Contact Person. The nominated person should have the appropriate training and experience and be familiar with the procedures. They may be a supervisor, manager or someone in authority within your organisation.

    The nominated person responsible for managing the complaint should keep a record of all stages of the investigation. You should check your employer’s anti-bullying policy for the steps to follow under the secondary informal process.

    Mediation

    The WRC provides a mediation service, if both parties agree to it. The Mediator's Institute of Ireland (MII) have a list of accredited meditators that also provide private workplace mediation services. You get more details from mii.ie. Mediation can help to resolve issues informally before a formal process is initiated.

    For more details on the informal process, see the Code of Practice for Employers and Employees on the Prevention and Resolution of Bullying at Work (pdf).

    If these informal approaches are not enough to resolve the issue and in situations where the bullying continues, you may need to consider making a formal complaint.

    How to make a formal complaint

    You should report the bullying to a manager.

    Your employer's policy on bullying should clearly set out:

    • What will happen when a formal complaint is made
    • How the complaint will be investigated
    • Who will carry out the investigation taking into account issues of confidentiality and the rights of both parties

    The company’s investigator should meet with you and any witnesses or relevant other people on a confidential basis. You can bring a work colleague or trade union representative with you to this meeting. This applies to both the complainant and the person complained of.

    Your employer should keep records and copies of written statements should be given to both parties.

    Appealing the investigation

    Your employer’s Anti-bullying policy should include an appeals process. It should set out the time period for making an appeal. The person hearing the appeal should have had no involvement in the investigation.

    You should be supported during the formal complaints process. For example through the Contact Person or advisory support services, where possible.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub



    You are correct - There are people I would feel safe/comfortable making that kind of comment to and those that I wouldn't .

    I think the point being made is that Ms. Wynne clearly did not see it as funny even if the person saying it was saying it in jest.

    If she felt it was simply "banter" she wouldn't have brought it up in the interview as described.

    Now , whether or not she is being overly sensitive or over reacting is not for any of us to say from this remove , but I think based on the information available Ms. Wynne clearly took offence to what was said.

    At best , it was a poorly judged comment from someone that perhaps didn't really know Ms. Wynne well enough to make said comment.



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