The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Did I argue that the Miami defence didn't improve?

Improve it did - but it was still bang average last season - exactly in the middle of the pack.

But that is not the issue - the issue is that Flores was never a DC - he was a linebackers coach prior to becoming a HC (and a linebackers coach on a team where the HC controlled everything).

Do I think that Flores flamed out like so many other coaches from the BB tree - no - but I do think that he is a typical BB clone as HC and none of them have succeeded as HC.

In the last four years there hasn't been a single HC fired who subsequently got a job as a coordinator who wasn't previously a coordinator. Several have taken major demotions - Joe Judge (never a coordinator) is QB coach at the Pats - Matt Patricia (nominally DC at the Pats) is OL coach at the Pats - Adam Gase (remember him) is coaching as the offensive coordinator on a high-school team. Doug Marrone - who has been a coach for more than 20 years - has had two stints as a HC and has been a coordinator - is the OL coach at the Saints (after being OL coach at Alabama after being sacked by the Jags)

Of the HCs fired after last season -

Jon Gruden - no job (and will play out the remainder of his ten year contract)

Urban Meyer - no job (will probably end up back in the college ranks)

Vic Fangio - no job (was apparently offered the DC job by the Jags but supposedly turned it down because he thought he was being interviewed for the HC job)

Mike Zimmer - no job (will get a coordinator job somewhere eventually - thought he might end up as DC in Denver because of his connections to Paton - but the Broncos did a massive clear-out and have completely changed gear - and brought in Capers as a senior advisor)

Matt Nagy - no job (I suspect will end up as a positional coach somewhere evenutally)

Joe Judge - QB coach with the Pats

David Culley - no job (like Nagy - probably a positional coach somewhere)

Brian Flores - Senior defensive assistant and linebackers coach with the Steelers.

So - again - evidence that Flores is 'significantly over-qualified' for the job he now has ?

I will say that Flores could not have landed in a better spot - and the fact that he chose to go to the Steelers shows a lot of maturity on his part. He had 12 years coaching under the Patriot Way in a coaching system/tree that has produced zero candidates capable of being HCs. Mike Tomlin is a great NFL HC and he is the polar opposite of Belichick in his approach to being a HC. As long as Flores does not do what most of the failed Patriot Way coaches do and fly back to daddy - then he has the potential to broaden his coaching experience and possibly return in the future as a successful HC. If he does then it would be a massive indictment of how BB uses his coaches at NE.

None of this takes away from the fact that there is systemic racism and misogyny in the NFL - there will be some token moves like Goodell suggesting that someone from a minority background should buy the Broncos (Byron Allen is reputed to be intending to put in a bid - but he has nowhere near the $4billion it will cost) - nothing will really change as the rich and powerful who run the NFL don't give a sh*t about anything except making money.

Being a HC is a different skill set from being a coordinator - and Flores has never been a coordinator. Furthermore - he has zero coaching experience outside of being a BB underling. Whatever he did in Miami - and while the results were decent there was clearly serious issues behind the scenes - that does not automatically make him suitable for a DC position. On top of that - most coordinator positions are filled based on relationships. I thought there was a chance he could get the DC job either with the Giants or the Raiders - but Daboll went with Wink Martindale (good choice imo) and McDisaster dipped back into the Pats coahcing history to get Graham (probably realised he couldn't fit Flores' ego alongside his own in the building).

The Steelers job is where Flores is at - its a good job for him and it fits with his experience - and if he gets away from the BB tree then he has a chance to get a second go and might be successful.

Yes we are going around in circles a bit -

I will leave it with this - I don't have any preoccupation with Flores at all or the fact that he has never been a coordinator. I reponded to the claim by Honeybadger that he was 'significantly overqualified' for the job he got with the Steelers - I don't think he is - in fact I think he got a job right in line with his experience of being a BB clone, never having coached anywhere else and never been a DC.

As I pointed out and as you agree with - most of the jobs down the line from the HC are made because of relationships - and the only relationships that Flores has is with the BB tree.

To demonstrate - Hackett is HC of the Broncos - Outten as OC worked with Hackett in GB - Klint Kubiak has clear Denver connections and work with Paton in Minnesota - OL coach Barry worked in GB - his assistant was under Kubiak in Minnesota - RB coach worked with Hackett at the Bills and Jags - the new DC Ejiro Evero was in high school with Hackett - the DL coach worked with Evero at the Rams - the DB coach came from GB - the ST coordinator Stukes came from the Rams - new LB coach worked with Evero at SF under Fangio etc etc - Dom Capers is being brought in as a defensive advisor (Capers worked with Evero when at GB) and the word is that Gary Kubiak could be back in a similar role on offence.

The problem here is that coaching staff in the NFL is traditionally white - and as white HCs move up the line they bring the people they know with them. Now it is worth noting - a majority of the current Denver coaching staff are black (or from a minority background), something which is very positive.

Well I wouldn't be paying him big money until he shows he can be consistent for a full season which he has failed to do to this point in his NFL career.

well he needs to stop with the instagram stunts and statements like yesterday and concentrate on football because he wasn’t healthy last season and the Cards started 10-2 and only won one game the rest of the way and stumbled into the playoffs. And the season before last they had to win one game or something like that to get into the playoffs and collapsed. The team as a whole needs to cop on to itself and work to fix the issues, because the NFL isn’t moving the super bowl to November.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1501232835486703625

Aaron "It's not about the money" Rodgers

Broncos fans in a shambles now trying to convince themselves Mitch Trubisky would be a great FA signing. 😂

The deal in full

The AFC West is stacked at QB now, Carr by far the worst of the four starters and he isn't even that bad.

The Seahawks have gotten a lot to work with for their rebuild, should they be looking to do that with a much younger coach than 70-year-old Pete Carroll?

I think Fant is a great player who has had bad qbs. That will likely continue unless Seattle hit gold pretty quickly.

AFC QB roster is insane and incredibly deep now.

Are the Broncos a QB away though? In that division and a stacked AFC, will this get them over the hump?

I am sceptical on that front. Also, does the Miller trade look short-sighted now with a QB on board?

Fant was on my fantasy team that got to the Super Bowl this year, so I will always have a soft spot for him 😃

Mahomes, Herbert and Carr are all top notch QB's. They are closer with Wilson than with the awful QB's they had the last while but I thought Wilson slowed down a bit and looked older than his years last season. It'll be interesting to see if he bounces back.

They'll find it difficult to improve much though in that division.

I really don't know how the Packers have pulled that off when they're supposed to be in cap hell. The last few seasons has made me quite sceptical of how the cap is applied tbh.

The Broncos should be quite happy with that trade tbf. They certainly wouldn't be in my top 5 for Superbowl contenders for next season but Russ should see them vying for playoff spots for the foreseeable. Think the Seahawks got robbed but you never know how those picks will fare out.

I thought Wentz did well in Indy, very surprised at that move. I though he'd improve with the confidence of last season behind him.

the confidence of last season ? The colts had to beat the jags in week 18 to get into the playoffs and shat the bed badly and wentz was a big part of that. Why are you surprised at the move ? The owner of the team ranted about the season on a video, and the GM and HC when asked didn’t commit to wentz coming back and when frank reich was luck warm on wentz I knew he was done.

Let Carson wentz go to Washington. Unless he changes his mental outlook he’s never getting back to his early years in Philly where he played amazingly.

I mentioned his age for a reason, it's nothing to do with his winning record. I don't expect them to change coach because it was pretty clear over the last few months that either he left or Wilson did. Now that Wilson has, he's obviously staying.

But he is 70, no coach in NFL history has made it beyond 73 and he was an interim (Romeo Crennel). Obviously Carroll could go beyond that but if the Seahawks were looking towards the next golden era for the franchise, now would be a good time for a fresh face given the obvious on field rebuild they're about to undertake.

I think keeping a player is always less exciting that signing a player, it's just human nature

Have you seen any interviews with him? He sounds a lot younger than his years. He acts a lot younger than his years.

You are just deciding that because he's hit 70 they should get rid of him. That's ageism my friend.

By bad situation do you mean his time in Philly ? If that’s what you mean then lets not pretend he’s not to blame for some of that bad situation. Yes, he had injuries but so do many players but they rebound. From when he tore his ACL it was a slow if steady slide to what we saw in the 2020 season which was a pity. He should’ve been benched weeks before he was because he just wasn’t playing at all well. I blame the coaching staff in Philly for not having the balls to not coddle him and protect his feelings and instead do what was best for the team.

One common thing that Jalen hurts and Nick foles have with their team mates is that they played for them. The same can’t be said for Carson wentz and it seems the same issues occurred in Indy.

if by owner you mean Jim Irsay, then yes on the whole I’d agree that’s he’s an idiot but I’ve no issue in this regard with his decision. You expect when you give up what you give up for a QB, that down the stretch he’s there and he performs and wentz wasn’t due to his own choice over the vaccine, which is his right but there were consequences to that choice. And then week 18 we saw what happened there.

No I don’t have a dislike for Wentz but you implying something that a poster didn’t say isn’t new from you. I was delighted that we drafted Carson Wentz but the fact remains he had issues by the end of his time in Philly that weren’t on anyone else but Wentz.

why would I just focus on one year ? If it was that good a year he’d still be there. He can have good seasons statically but unless he decides to stop holding onto the ball way too long, deliberately ignoring wide open receivers(which he did in Philly) and instead throw into double coverage and get picked off, and unless he rediscovers an internal okay clock it won’t matter what team he’s on, or the best OLine in the league, he won’t have the success his talent out of North Dakota suggested.

well when a players Personal decisions have an impact on the success of his team then he has a right to be pissed off.

Another big trade

I didn't like this at all when I first heard just because it didn't add up to great value but the charges are also eating the salary so it makes some sense. Also agree they should keep trading while they're at it, load up on picks, after many years now of frittering them away in trades and moves up the board, and clean up the cap after years of kicking the can on salaries down the road through restructures for a win now that never came. I can certainly take a couple of years of "development" instead of 7-9 wins in perpetuity.