Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I think you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. If the Ukrainians surrender, they won't have a "pro-Russian" government , they'll have a Russian government based in Moscow.

Russia will carve off parts of Ukraine into Russia and let the rest become a puppet state with thousands of Russian "peacekeepers" in place, permanently stationed in Russian bases. Ukrainian society will be "cleansed" of its leaders and activists like the 22'000 Polish officers, politicians, doctors etc. that the Soviets slaughtered in the Katyn massacre to ensure no resistance after they invaded Poland in 1939.

They'll have no freedom of pretest, no freedom to dissent, no fair and transparent elections to change how their country is run. Look at Russia now; any politician seen as a legitimate threat to Putin is simply labelled a "foreign agent" and barred from running, resulting in huge victories for Putin and his fake opposition in every election. Any dissenting news is first labelled "foreign propaganda" and then shut down if that isn't enough.

Unlike you, the Ukrainians aren't stupid and have chosen to die on their feet rather than submit and doom their children to such a horrific fate.

And have Russian tanks roll back into the Ukraine again when that happens?

Considering your smug post on being alive compared to the Ukrainians, I'd be happy to pay for your ticket.

It's the other way around. Ukraine wants in and has for years. Should we be telling them to just píss off?

For comparison, attitudes like this came from people who took the Black and Tans in and gave them a bed and food knowing full well they were burning and killing by day. Just to save themselves.

We are only a small minuscule part in time. Some thing's are worth fighting for the greater good. Thankfully the Ukrainians are ballsy enough to realise this. The battle they fight is in reality standing up for the rest of the civilised world.

The second round of talks between delegations from Russia and Ukraine is set to take place today, with delegations expected to comprise the same representatives present at the first round of talks on Monday.

I wouldn't get too excited about these talks either.

EU/NATO membership is secondary to Putin, it's the gas/natural resources he's after. It's an oligarchy, they don't really give a **** about the every day Russian, Ukranian or anyone else they send into the meat grinder. All they care about is making themselves richer. Regardless of EU membership talk, he'd still be invading Ukraine to take control of it's gas reserves unless they were able successfully install a puppet government to which the Oligarchs can just pillage the resources from the people of Ukraine.

At the end of the day, as always, it comes down to money. Ukraine asserting it's own independence means they make less money. It just so happens in this instance that they started to look west, I don't think it really matters. They could have started trade deals with Turkey and the same thing would have happened.

Preparing the economy is pointless if your army which you intend to use isnt equally prepared, your argument makes no sense.

This invasion is Russia's effort to remove the pro-EU leaders.

And yes you've made it clear that you'd rather live than stand up for what's right, but thankfully millions around the world throughout history have done the opposite, and we can thank those people for our prosperity and freedom.

From BBC

Russia wants to declare former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych - ousted during anti-government protests in 2013-14 - as the new leader of Ukraine, the Ukrayinska Pravda news and analysis website has reported, quoting Ukrainian intelligence.

Yanukovych is now in Minsk, according to the Ukrainian website's source. He fled to Russia in 2014.

The Kremlin may be preparing a media operation or campaign to bring Yanukovych back to Ukraine, or publish an address from him to the Ukrainian people, the newspaper said.

The Foreign Office named former Ukrainian MP Yevhen Murayev as a potential Kremlin candidate.

Ultimate irony if they shot down any Russian military aircraft with these

I keep saying this on various threads, but the West is now full of fooking Quislings.

There is an intense hatred out there from some of ones own people or way of life.

Hell it is evident in our public representatives that actually voted against a motion in the EU parliament.

We have the gimps in the Dail who would rather do nothing than admit NATO and the US are the only things keeping a would be Stalin in check from invading the rest of Eastern Europe.

We have gotten very soft and for once the candle lit vigils, lighting buildings and famous infrastructure in coloured lights aint going to cut it.