Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Sounds about right, they wanted brexit, obviously with brexit you need a border but they don't one on the irish sea or on land...

The EU have the power to put the pressure on the British government on this issue which is exactly what is happening. The loyalist alternative to the protocol is nothing. To hell with the EU and it’s single market. That’s not going to work. They are not going to force 4 million Irish people out of the single market against their will either. They are going to have to accept the reality of their situation they are effectively alone and outnumbered on a small island abandoned by the mainland. The remnants of a failed invasion from nearly 400 years ago. They haven’t done too bad to survive in a such a privileged position as long they have and they will survive just as well for another 400 years in an inevitable new arrangement.

If they are calling for a replacement but not proposing one, they are just bloviating windbags full of bin juice.

Your usual style is slightly more polite Peregrinus!!!

Nice to see you let loose once in a while. 😁

Yep, thought it was the height of hypocrisy to hear Boris Johnson accuse others of breaking international law while he was doing the same - although he probably enjoyed it and thought it was all a jolly jape.

I’ve seen talk on twitter that should Putin cut off gas to Europe, Norway is obliged to supply EU countries before the UK. However all gas interconnection to Ireland runs solely via the UK, hence if they’re cut off, we are cut off.

I doubt things will come to this but what would we do in such a situation? Could we just use Corrib for a while?

https://twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1496133061343420428?s=20&t=03pwAkEX5NhCqNDvlS8w_Q

If things really hot up we will have to ration gas across Europe. In Ukraine they are preparing to fight the Russians in the streets so gas rationing is mild in comparison. I'm thinking of my former colleagues in our Kiev office right now and hoping they don't have to take up arms to defend their country :-(

i guess the more relevant question to this thread is, has brexit taken away too much focus of the Eu on matters like Russia. or are countries such as germany just too naive or just thinking about what in for them such as supporting ukraine with 5000 helmets and the north stream pipeline with the reluctance to give that up until just very recently...

at times like these i'm glad corbyn was hammered in the election.

I think the fact that you had 11 of Corbyn's most vocal supporters come out with the same tripe that NATO expansion was a cause of the invasion, I shudder to think what Corbyn as leader would have said. I bet he would have gone harder on sanctions, but he would have offered the NATO excuse. That is the reason why he had no chance, his views on the world does seems to agree a lot with the likes of Farage, even if they pretend to be on different spectrums of the political divide. This was apparent with Brexit as well, while both Corbyn and Farage supported Brexit, they came at it from different sides. Doesn't matter as the result is the same.

Back to Brexit, this thread is interesting on the NIP and what people in NI think about it,

Some interesting information in the thread. I don't think it was fair on the questions on what the NIP does, but it seems clear that while there is a still a divide on the NIP, this does seem to be along political lines. Loyalists seems to have a negative view of the Protocol and their support seems to correspond with that percentage, about 40% of the electorate. But it is interesting that many people see the NIP as more of a political stability threat than economic threat to NI. So they know they are better off with the NIP, but politically it is not great and thus could leave open the possibility of economic harm due to this.

No. Brexit is a UK obsession. The EU is largely over it; a couple of people have been identified whose job it is to do the Brexit mopping-up precisely so that nobody else has to think too much about it.

Whatever failings there may be in the EU response to the invasion of Ukraine, Brexit is not the cause of them. If anything, UK involvement in formulating the EU response would be more likely to have led to a weaker response than a stronger.

It is interesting that one of the reasons given for the UK leaving the EU is that would be able to nimbly make decisions on their own.

You had the spectacle where politicians were arguing over twitter that the UK was doing all they can for refugees from Ukraine, yet the reality on the ground was different. People were being denied entry to the UK due to not fulfilling visa criteria and the EU already agreed to allow refugees without the need to apply for one. I suspect the response would have been delayed in the EU had the UK been a member, as they would have held up the EU response to this and it would have been up to each country to decide. This would then be used by the likes of Farage as a reason why they should leave.

You even had the carnage of politicians offering those fleeing from Ukraine the option to enter the UK, by applying for the temporary worker visa to go and work on their farms if they didn't have family in the UK. So we welcome you here with open arms, but go and work in the fields while your country burns and other family members are fighting. What a lovely country they have become.

Edit - just to add the family provision is very narrow as well as fair as I could find. British family member must be a Spouse, partner if in relationship for at least 2 years, parent if you are under 18, your child if you are over 18 or an adult relative you are caring for.

No grandparents, no brothers or sisters. Stay in a foreign country with no family then. But Johnson will lie again and tell you they are leading with their response.

https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1498051799416066048?s=20&t=OmSKGI5LMeaAgTN71yLtBw

UK hasn't participated in EU policy formation since 2016.

In fairness to the UK, they are being entirely consistent with their current policy. Brexit was supposedly built on a hatred of Eastern Europeans, so why should they make it easier for some Eastern Europeans to come to the UK simply becuase their country is being invaded?

I suspect that a UK-in-the-EU would have agreed at Council to allow visa free entry to Ukrainian refugees. Conservative MPs would have continued the noble tradition of blaming the EU for forcing this decision.

UK-out-of-the-EU has no such fig leaves available and has to posture a bit more for "there's no room" vote.

of course Ukrainian had a lot of issues,especially with judiciary system but at this moment if the application was to become successful tomorrow it would already be the longest negotiations ever the eu had with a new country that finally joined , and i think we agree we are still many years away from that happening.

the ukraine has no unresolved issues with russia . russia has unresolved issues with ukraine, i think that is a big difference. and of course its a difficult situation .but i would say the way you put it, sounds a bit like you blame the wife that gets beaten up at home ,for getting beaten up at home rather than blaming the abusive husband . so i guess because of the russia issues negotiations should not have slowed down the process, it anything it should have speed up the process as the eu would seem to agree with right now .

but i think it was kind of clear in 2014 we either should have said, yes we did tell russia in the early 90 s that the ukraine would stay neutral and leave it there , or speed the process up to enter it into the west

i agree at the end of the day its easy so say what should maybe have been done , and i agree most likely even without brexit we would be at the same situation. as it kind of needed a very serious incident for this change of mind.

and while putin was keen on brexit . in this case maybe brexit was even a good thing as it might have made decisions faster on economic sanctions ....