Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Dohnjoe · 02-03-2022 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720741#Comment_118720741

Jaysus

Multiple polls at the time showed that a clear majority of people in those regions did not favour joining Russia, but before anything could be done these armed "separatists" suddenly appeared as a violent force, incredibly well-armed with the latest Russian hardware, backed by Russian soldiers "on holiday", able to shoot down transport aircraft and airliners.

The whole thing is horseshit, yes the place was Russia-centric, yes there was talk of some federal independence that year from Kyiv, but there was little desire to "separate and join Russia". Moscow manufactured that crisis in S.E Ukraine, it was an invasion by proxy, a very clever mechanism that could deter Ukraine as a whole from joining NATO.

GM228 · 02-03-2022 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720969#Comment_118720969

Quite the opposite and possibly the last time that Russia (as part of the Soviet Union) was considered an ally of the US, UK and France.

omega man · 02-03-2022 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720964#Comment_118720964

They can discuss it when queuing for basic items like food etc.

Propaganda will only go so far but surely questions will be asked as poverty hits them overnight.

greenpilot · 02-03-2022 5:33pm

For those who follow Binkov, he has just released the one we have been waiting for. A great analysis of the Ukranian Armed Forces as they are right now.

https://youtu.be/nbc7299kLOE

seamus · 02-03-2022 5:33pm

@timmyntc wrote:

Euromaidan was a power play to replace a Russia backed puppet with a Western backed puppet.

When you claim that (at least) 28 independent democratic governments can conspire together to install a "puppet" government in another country, one would expect that at some point some evidence would emerge about this conspiracy. I mean, not only did Putin conspire to put a puppet in government in Ukraine and Belarus, we also have a shedload of evidence for it.

Yet somehow, despite multiple elections, governance changes and diplomatic disagreements, all of the EU members have managed to keep evidence of this grand conspiracy under wraps.

Seems just a bit far-fetched.

realdanbreen · 02-03-2022 5:34pm

Serious question. Does anyone here know any Russians who are absolutely against this war? I'm not talking about a random Russian who rings Joe Duffy or some Russian who protested outside the embassy. I'm talking about knowing a Russian, a work colleague or neighbour who will condemn the war. I know several well educated ones who simply will not condemn it. This isn't me having a pop at Russians, I am simply stating the facts as I have experienced.

omega man · 02-03-2022 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720995#Comment_118720995

My 16 year old daughter knew that and that’s why she was shocked people of that age were outright lying.

PrzemoF · 02-03-2022 5:34pm

There is a plausible explanation why the Russian army vehicles are running out of fuel. Normally a military vehicle in Russia and other the ex-soviet countries was supposed to carry fuel for 800 km. There are information that soldiers started to make holes in fuel tanks when they realized that it's not a military exercise, but a war. That guarantees that they can't reach the destiantion. Also that would explain why the 60 km (?) long military column going for Kyiv(*) almost stopped.

Please use spelling Kyiv (from Ukrainian) not Kiev (from Russian). I learned that today.

Source: https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/russian-troops-sabotaging-their-own-tanks-and-walking-away-from-target-towns-to-avoid-combat-in-ukraine-41401492.html

Fiery mutant · 02-03-2022 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720942#Comment_118720942

While this is understandable, the offset is that the Russians have an overwhelming superiority in capabilities. Massive amounts of armour and machines are being poured in to this, but they are being going on with underfed and lower morale tips, facing determined and better trained troops. The Ukraine military is inflicting losses no one thought they would, and to be honest, if the militaries were more closely matched in terms of capabilities, I think the Russians would still be stuck at the border eating 7 year old rations.

GM228 · 02-03-2022 5:35pm

Reports that Georgia will submit an EU application now, Putin will be p****d off even more now.

Dohnjoe · 02-03-2022 5:36pm

Apparently Georgia will submit an application to join the EU (but source looks like TASS so will wait on that one)

briany · 02-03-2022 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721005#Comment_118721005

Yeah, but I would have thought those questions would be answered with 'the evil West is trying to break our will.'.

realdanbreen · 02-03-2022 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721029#Comment_118721029

Georgia or anywhere else joining the EU is the least of putins worries right now. I'd say trying to negotiate a way of sparing his life after humiliating his country and costing it billions is his top priority now.

timmyntc · 02-03-2022 5:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721022#Comment_118721022

Is there any proof of this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720925#Comment_118720925

It doesnt matter what the magic number is, what matters is that DPR and LPR are large areas with large populations, of course they deserve the right to self-determination as places of that size, and if they so choose to be independent then why cant they?

what the threshold is to be an independent movement is irrelevant because clearly whatever number it is, DPR and LPR are well above it. Theyre as big as northern ireland, not some villages.

manonboard · 02-03-2022 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721017#Comment_118721017

All 6 Russians on my work team are completely against it. They live in Finland about 3-7 years in total. They are very scared about what will occur in russia, and not about the economy, but what putin will do to protestors when it starts to become known how false all this war is

thomil · 02-03-2022 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721071#Comment_118721071

That would explain why he's seemingly dropped of the surface of the Earth. Maybe it's because of my filter bubble but I haven't seen anything new from the Gremlin in the Kremlin in quite some time.

goldenmick · 02-03-2022 5:48pm

Fed up of Boris publicly spouting off all the time. If we're going to get nuked I'd rather it be for physically standing up to Putin, as opposed to Boris constantly goading him with verbals. The tory twat is doing a first class job of trying to improve his own image... on the back of ensuring the UK will be top of the list should mad vlad take the nuclear plunge.

Gatling · 02-03-2022 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720958#Comment_118720958

Rt is nothing but a Kremlin misinformation system ,it's not a news channel or anything like it ,

It's the KGB broadcasting and some poor sods are buying Into it hook line and sinker ,

Id Gladly see it banned outside of Russia ,they have offices all over the world including on college and university campuses that's an intelligence operation

PrzemoF · 02-03-2022 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720969#Comment_118720969

Unfortunately it's true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachtigall_Battalion

France was working with Nazis as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Vichy_France

Anyway, it's history. They need help. If we start thinking what was happening long time ago there isn't a single nation without its dark pages.

P.S. Russians celebrate "Day of Moscow’s Liberation from Polish Invaders". I guess using today's Kremlin language Polish-Lithuanian army was there with peace keeping mission?

is_that_so · 02-03-2022 5:49pm

Not the last time this will be said.

Ukraine’s ambassador to the UN Sergiy Kyslytsya has compared the Russian leader Vladimir Putin with Hitler.

Donald Trump · 02-03-2022 5:49pm

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/there-is-no-fear-world-heavyweight-champion-oleksandr-usyk-speaks-from-ukraines-frontline-41403923.html

Usyk and Lomachenko are over fighting on the front lines. International sports stars who literally get paid millions (maybe even tens of millions) to fight in a boxing ring

VinLieger · 02-03-2022 5:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721091#Comment_118721091

It does matter what the threshold is because if there is one there needs to be a reason for it to be whatever it is which you don't seem to be able to answer. Or rather you can't answer it because you know it has no answer but are refusing to admit that because it will make you look ridiculous.

Billcarson · 02-03-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720969#Comment_118720969

There was some collaboration in ww2 with the nazis in Ukraine though, with Ukraine nationalists. Most of the guards at sobibor were Ukrainian for example . They weren't the only collaboraters of course but maybe that was what she was referring to and thinking Ukrainians were all on the nazis side in ww2.

storker · 02-03-2022 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118720969#Comment_118720969

Some Ukrainians did volunteer to fight for Germany, motivated by their hatred of Communism, but the country as a whole didn't. They were welcoming to the Germans in June 1941 because they saw them as liberators, but the Germans themselves put paid to that idea pretty quickly. In fact the Germans' plan for Ukraine was starvation: grabbing all the grain and using it to feed Germany. Ukraine suffered horrendously under both the swastika and the hammer and sickle.

nigeldaniel · 02-03-2022 5:52pm

The slow process of the Russian army could pausable be due to Russian army commanders not really wanting to do what Putin is telling them. The fact the then US can listing to some conversation of Russian army movements could be a way the Russian army is trying to communicate this to NATO and the US.

briany · 02-03-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721035#Comment_118721035

I think the fact is that neither Ukraine or Georgia are getting into the EU any time particularly soon. It's one thing to make an emotional pronouncement about wanting them in the club, but the practicalities of it come to the fore when it really gets discussed. If those countries don't meet certain criteria to join, but are still admitted, you're opening up a pandora's box of complaints. The Balkan states will be asking questions, for a start. If the Ukrainian/Georgian governments are corrupt, you potentially have more rogue actors in the EP and CoE, and the EU is already at odds with Orban. If Ukraine and Georgia aren't of a certain standard economically, there could be discontent about Ukrainians and Georgians taking up job opportunities in the west of Europe but not really offering much opportunity themselves.

timmyntc · 02-03-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721140#Comment_118721140

What was the threshold for Irish independence movements then?

Or Kosovar independence?

Killinator · 02-03-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721140#Comment_118721140

Worse, Timmy contradicts himself by saying the threshold, if there was one, is irrelevant but then stating that it's because they are a large area and not some village therefore implying that the threshold does matter 🤷

ODriscoll · 02-03-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721016#Comment_118721016

No more far fetched than thousands of people copying and pasting prior regurgitated BS on the likes of twitter, tweeted by people not actually there on the ground.

Convincing themselves they then know the truth of events thousands of miles away.

Wibbs · 02-03-2022 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118721005#Comment_118721005

Maybe not. It will be spun and most likely believed that the West as usual and what it has done before is punishing ordinary Russian people because they were trying to save ordinary Russian people being attacked in Ukraine. That the West is punishing us narrative was a cornerstone of old Soviet propaganda to explain the ever more noticeable wealth gulf for the guts of a century and it has been kept going since the wall fell, with a short dip in the 90's.

I don't think people understand the fallback to seige mentality, the West is out to break Russia stuff that can be present in ordinary Russians. I've experience of it and found it alien. And these are intelligent well educated people living in and contributing to the West for decades. Now imagine those who've never left, only speak Russian and only watch Russian media. Maybe the closest parallel in Ireland might be the Orange order Unionist types up North? They believe what they believe and that's that and will twist in the wind to line up their perception of reality with that narrative. On a couple of occasions(because it was so alien and fascinating) I've tried to calmly dissect their views, agreeing with some, asking why they believe others, and they're nice about it, but the shutters come down. Not unlike the fervently religious. They're a very proud, very conservative and a very sentimental people who love Russia warts and all and with a general suspicion towards the West.

If anything I could see this actually bolstering support for the bloated gnome in the Kremlin, at least in ths short term. IMHO He's more likely to lose support if he's seen to fail in this 'military intervention' than by sanctions. The Czar can be cruel, enrich himself and his lords, silence his enemies and that's always been tolerated as the workings of the Czar, but if he looks weak and loses... He can never show weakness when fighting for Mother Russia. IMHO that's why him and his aren't backing down, even in the face of worldwide condemnation and sanctions, even though to a Western eye that sounds and looks insane.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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