Russia - threadbanned users in OP

03-03-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725312#Comment_118725312

It's a miracle no more lives have been lost. Attribute one more miracle to him and we'll start the Putin for sanctification process.

03-03-2022 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725312#Comment_118725312

🤣 Good one

Wes M. · 03-03-2022 1:55pm

I'm asking this question from a position of ignorance, but if western nations are supplying equipment and supplies to Ukraine, surely Russia can claim that NATO are involved ? If the Russians can't shut down those supply corridors, the war could go on as long as Ukraine has the manpower to use that equipment.

Dohnjoe · 03-03-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725248#Comment_118725248

What's with the false equivalence.

NATO was setup to protect against exactly what Putin is doing now. Baltic states that joined after 1997 had the foresight to see the benefits of having such a defensive alliance. Ukraine is not a part of NATO, so I have no idea what your comment is about NATO "staying out". Ukraine is a sovereign nation, if they so wish, they can choose to join NATO.

Don't start with the breathless excuses about "nukes getting closer to Russia", that's Kremlin nonsense. It's not the 60's anymore. Most of the world's active nukes are on submarines, which can be parked off just about any country.

cnocbui · 03-03-2022 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725120#Comment_118725120

And Russsia still has an embassy open in Ireland? Cowards.

Heraclius · 03-03-2022 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725387#Comment_118725387

God, that's a profoundly dark tactic if he pursues it.

zv2 · 03-03-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725370#Comment_118725370

It is not that simple. What if Canada decides to become communist and form an alliance with Russia? Would the Americans be comfortable with that? You have to respect how delicate and tense this situation is. There needs to be a legally binding, unambiguous treaty; NATO out, Russia out. Ukraine is in a unique position in history and in the world today. That has to be handled delicately.

Bayonet · 03-03-2022 1:58pm

Russia has not hit so many vessels of other nations recently, it's starting to look like it's on purpose.

Strazdas · 03-03-2022 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725357#Comment_118725357

NATO 'expanding' simply means countries actively wanting to join it and applying for membership. Expanding makes it sound like it has a deliberate policy of becoming bigger and goes around begging countries to join (the line being pushed by Putin apologists and supporters).

cnocbui · 03-03-2022 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725138#Comment_118725138

The guy across the table has jumped on it it and is coming at you with a knife. 'Understanding' isn't going to do you much good.

03-03-2022 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725378#Comment_118725378

There is no justification for the invasion.

But it is true that Bush and Cheney needlessly poked the bear with a sharp stick in 2008 when Bush said in a speech that Georgia and Ukraine would ultimately join NATO. NATO members were aghast at the comments…..smarter people than Bush (which wasnt hard) knew the implications of what he said. Bush was flying completely solo. Lo and behold, shortly afterwards Putin carried out his Georgia incursion.

Bush does bear some of the responsibility for NATO / Russia tensions over the last decade.

is_that_so · 03-03-2022 1:59pm

Delegations from Russia and Ukraine are set to meet for a second round of talks in Belarus today, after a Ukrainian presidential adviser confirmed that their representatives were on the way.

Bayonet · 03-03-2022 2:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725413#Comment_118725413

It would act as a 'motivator' for Russian troops who seem demoralised. Would also rally the home front. It's so utterly ruthless. Something a Bond villain would do.

Dyr · 03-03-2022 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725428#Comment_118725428

Someone who advocates for not defending yourself when you're being physically attacked, does not have your best interests at heart.

Heraclius · 03-03-2022 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725435#Comment_118725435

Yes, it would fit in with the story about a declaration of martial law also. God I hope they don't do that to their own people.

The tax man · 03-03-2022 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724926#Comment_118724926

He said they can maintain their fleet from within Russia, but with the proposed sanctions on parts how long can they keep the fleet air worthy? He only stated the German base was one of their larger maintenance bases that they may not be able to access.

purplefields · 03-03-2022 2:07pm

Why are people phoning the Russian embassy, and want the ambassador to leave?

Surely we should be keeping all lines of negotiation open?

FintanMcluskey · 03-03-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724943#Comment_118724943

Absolutely Wibb's.

Another thing I will add is that referring to the Ukraine as a democratic country (which many online commentators are doing), is misleading.

Considering the Ukraine a democracy is a very generous outlook on its very recent history.

To state that doesn't mean I'm pro Putin or a Putin bot, and make no mistake Russia and Putin is the aggressor, but its another relevant branch in the discussion of the crisis.

Ukraine isn't in the EU or the NATO for valid reasons.

Boggles · 03-03-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725263#Comment_118725263

I have no idea of the content of your 17,000 posts nor do I care, I am talking solely about your posts in this thread.

But I'll tell you what is actually poor form, fabricated conversations with X who assures you it's nothing to do with you and the users of boards are just too thick for your intellect.

I was chatting with my wife about it yesterday, asking why people might be so defensive. I explained what I thought and she made a good point. Firstly , not all people on these threads are balanced , objective individuals. And secondly a small piece of text. Can easily be misinterpreted and considered hostile

😕

CB19Kevo · 03-03-2022 2:12pm

So is there pressure we can apply to private business to cease trading in Russia.

Any petitions to sign?

Let's apply a little bit of pressure here, maybe another thread could be created with links to petitions?

Maybe one big push might put enough pressure on Putin to either be ousted or a Russian revolt.

If we let this drag on the momentum will decrease so now is the time to hit hard.

Gant21 · 03-03-2022 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725488#Comment_118725488

Putin isn’t getting scared or worried about your plan. The man is untouchable.

Dohnjoe · 03-03-2022 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725417#Comment_118725417

Why create this silly strawman?

Ukraine is a sovereign nation, they can choose to join NATO if they want. Russia only sees NATO as a "threat" because it gets in the way of it's imperialistic designs on other nations.

Dohnjoe · 03-03-2022 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725485#Comment_118725485

Just because Ukraine comes with the "baggage" of an aggressive neighbour endlessly trying to turn it into a vassal state doesn't mean it isn't a democracy. That's ridiculous.

josip · 03-03-2022 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725391#Comment_118725391

Clarification from Ciarán Cuffe about the IT article. I was annoyed when I read the IT article, but in fairness to him, I don't think he should be included in that list.

Dear Josip,

Thank you for writing to me, and apologies for my delay in responding. As I’m sure you can imagine, these last few days have been unusually busy for my office. I of course agree that there is urgent need to condemn Vladimir Putin’s hostile invasion of Ukraine. If democratic nations are to flourish around the world, they must be secure from attacks by hostile powers such as Russia.

In this instance, there may be some confusion at play. I voted in favour of yesterday's European Parliament resolution condemning Russia's latest act of aggression. Two weeks ago, I also voted in favour of the European Commission’s proposed €1.2 billion aid package to Ukraine. However, this weekend The Irish Times published a story about my abstention on a similar resolution back in December.

As you acknowledge, there was some reasoning underlying both my previous abstention and my more recent vote in favour of these resolutions.

The text of last December's vote, which you can find here, expressed solidarity with Ukraine, condemned Russia’s aggression and called for economic and financial sanctions against Russia – all of which I support. However, the text also contained language calling for increased co-operation with NATO, which I felt was in conflict with Ireland’s and the Green Party’s policy of military neutrality. I wrote about these conflicting feelings in my Written Explanation of Vote, which you can find here.

However, clearly the situation has evolved since December, and I now believe that the European Parliament must be unified and unambiguous in our stance. Accordingly, I voted in favour of yesterday’s resolution, despite it containing similar language regarding NATO co-operation. Although I may disagree with the letter of some of the commitments included in the resolution, I wholeheartedly support the spirit in which those commitments were made. You can read the full text of the resolution, which has much to recommend it, here.

I hope I have been able to clarify my position here, though of course the situation at hand is rapidly evolving, and I will continue to reflect on and adapt my position as new developments emerge. You can read more about my stance on yesterday’s resolution in the press release attached to this email.

Don’t hesitate to write again with any further comments or questions you may have.

03-03-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725072#Comment_118725072

What organization a sovereign country joins is their own business and no-one else's.

Wrong. It is also the business of the pre-existing member states of the organization they want to join. It is blindingly, tragically obvious that Ukraine has been led down the primrose path with regard to NATO. It cannot join. It must not join. People talk about how we should call Putin's bluff. What has actually happened is that he has called the west's bluff, at Ukraine's expense. Ukrainian membership of NATO will lead to a nuclear war and it's clear that western governments don't want that - yet. I don't see the sanctions as sustainable or conducive to peace. Crushing sanctions is what caused the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. If you don't think that they will lead, at the very least, to a crippling cyber attack on western infrastructure leading to unparalleled chaos and escalation, just wait and see.

At this point, western utopianism is going to get us all killed, because it has ignored the fact that there are other, lethal powers out there who won't allow liberal democracy to encroach into what they see as their back yards (and yes, this is the soft bigotry of low expectations on my part - I don't think much of the Russian and Chinese people. I expect them to act like beasts). It turns out that Russia has a Monroe Doctrine of its own. It is willing to bleed and suffer. And it is willing to incinerate us. When Putin threatens nuclear war and we say he's bluffing, or that it's all optics, are we seriously going to take that bet? Because we cannot afford to get that assessment wrong. Are we willing to give him the excuse he needs to end the world for Ukraine?

At this point, I would be perfectly content for the world to revert to a sphere of influence model, for the simple fact that there is no alternative at this point. If the Russo-Ukraine war doesn't cause WW3 (and I think it's 70:30 that it will), the inevitable Chinese takeover of Taiwan will cause it. Ukraine and Taiwan are not worth burning the planet to a crisp, and the deaths of our wives and children, and wives and children all across the globe. This is the most dangerous moment in history. It is more dangerous than anything that has ever happened before, because the stakes are higher than they have ever been. We are no more than 30 minutes away from a nuclear holocaust and we have a callous egomaniac in the Kremlin with ice in his veins, a dotard in the White House and an affirmative action hire waiting in the wings, and an utter buffoon in No. 10.

Let Putin have Ukraine and Georgia. Let China have Taiwan. Let the West hunker down, bolster its defenses, agree a new security architecture with the other Great Powers, consolidate what we have, and let life continue on this planet.

briany · 03-03-2022 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725431#Comment_118725431

I find it pretty hard to believe that the Russians

A) Hadn't the intelligence operation to know if Bush was flying solo or not; to put out some feelers in Washington whether this was to be America's policy going forward.

B) Weren't going to at least sit back and see what the next U.S. president did or said.

Now, you might say that the Russians saw a window of opportunity to invade Georgia with the South Ossetia conflict going on and decided that time was as good as any to use it as a pretext, but here's the problem with trying to invade countries - they don't generally like being invaded or enjoy the threat of it. The more neighbours you invade, the more neighbours you make think, 'Hmmm, perhaps we'd be better off throwing our lot in with someone else...'

Necro · 03-03-2022 2:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725516#Comment_118725516

How ridiculously cowardly and self-centred of you. Let the bullies win because it might affect me. Jesus.

firemansam4 · 03-03-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725023#Comment_118725023

And here we go again with this kind of sh**t.

Ukraine expressing a desire to join NATO does not equal NATO being in the Ukraine.

On the other hand Russia is very much in the Ukraine right now invading and killing people.

To be honest why on earth would Ukraine not want to be in NATO right now? Their citizens are being killed with Russian bombs while they can look across the border to countries like Poland and see how they are protected against this kind of aggression.

Their are many countries in Nato in Eastern europe that do not host nuclear weapons and only wish to have the security of not being invaded.

Yurt2 · 03-03-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725485#Comment_118725485

Ukraine's last presedential election was rated free and fair by the OSCE, which by the way, would have included Irish elections monitors as part of the mission btw.

You are free to read the report if you wish.

There was noted instances of vote buying from the Poroschenko camp but Zelensky won in spite of this.

The administration of the election was described as free and fair. Zelensky was elected, and power was transmitted to him in a completely democratic manner.

If you have evidence to the contrary you're welcome to furnish it.

Christy42 · 03-03-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725417#Comment_118725417

Name every country you want to give Russia absolute power on their alliances.

Noting that Finland and Sweden have already been threatened if they join Nato. You can say Ukraine today but then Putin will want power over any country Russia borders if he can get away with it.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Comments