Changes in the GAA - super thread

Not all matches have them, and even at that, if a team had one where someone on their team did something dodgy, they’d delete the video (ie this happened in a cork club match last year).

Even at that, I mean for the GAA to be able to review their refs (similar to every single major sporting organisation)

Oh flawed, of course, it was. But Green proposal is seriously flawed

Based on 2021 it would look like this (slightly imperfect due to the weird north/south leagues last year, but probably not a million miles away):

• Dark Green = Senior AI based on Provinicals
• Light Green = Senior AI based on league position
• Blue = Tailteann Cup

I hope they give the Tailteann cup the coverage it deserves because most of those teams would fancy their chances of getting some silverware - could be a v.competitive competition if the teams bought into it

I would expect that the Tailteann Cup will only get limited enough television coverage given how poorly the GAA have handled TV rights the last while.

The only hope of any sort of half serious coverage is that TG4 try to convince the GAA to let them broadcast it.

Even then having it on TG4 means it will effectively be hidden away from whole swathes of the country given how poor TG4's reach is.

You would hope that GAA might stream these games on GAAGO but given the powers that be attitude to streaming games, I don't think it probably won't happen.

In spite of the prospect of poor TV coverage, I think there is zero prospect of teams not buying in to it.

Anyone who thinks it will be a Tommy Murphy Cup mark 2 is well wide of the mark I think.

Managers and players of Division 3 and Division 4 teams have been calling out for an increased number of competitive games for a good few years and the format of the Tailteann Cup provides this. I reckon it won't be long before managers of Division 3 and Division 4 teams are not rushing players back from injury/start resting players in the provincial championships but instead focus more on getting players to peak for the Tailteann Cup group stages. The provincial championships have been poor enough hunting grounds for Division 3 and 4 teams for a good while now, whereas the Tailteann Cup looks like it will be a much more rewarding competition. When you compare the qualifier system to the Tailteann Cup structure, the Tailteann Cup is miles ahead.

How much talk was there of teams/players not buying into the qualifiers?

In the situation above the seedings for the Sam Maguire group stages would have been

Top Seeds - Mayo, Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone

2nd Seeds - Galway, Kildare, Cork, Monaghan

3rd Seeds - Donegal, Armagh, Roscommon, Meath

4th Seeds - Clare, Down, Derry, Offaly

Also the winner of the Tailteann Cup this year will take the place of the 8th league qualifier next year (if they haven't qualified based on the provincial route or the league rankings route)

Teams who have met in the provincial finals can't be drawn in the same group. i.e Mayo and Galway, Dublin and Kildare, Kerry and Cork and Tyrone and Monaghan must be kept apart. There is no other rules about keeping teams apart so Clare for instance who were beaten by Kerry in the Munster Championship could get drawn in the same group as them.

Every team will have one home game, one away game and one neutral game. Given the situation in the Super 8s, it's probable Dublin will get to play both their home game and their neutral game at Croke Park. Also the provincial champions get their first game at home.

After the group stage the top teams in each group go straight into the quarter-finals. The reward for topping the group is a home game and at least a week off while the four 2nd placed teams will have a home game against the 4 3rd placed teams. I'm not sure about the exact time-line but given the condensed season I think it will be 3 group games in 3 weeks and then the 2nd v 3rd play-off the following week with the winner of the 2nd v 3rd game playing the quarter-final the following weekend which is 5 games in 5 weekends. There may be some break weekend in there but given the compressed intercounty calendar I think there's a good chance there might not be.

Topping the group gives a significant advantage over finishing 2nd which has an advantage over finishing 3rd.

It will be interesting to see how teams who finish 1st in the group do versus the teams who finish 2nd and 3rd.

I think it will be very rare that a team that finishes 3rd manages to get to a sem-final and that those that finish 2nd will more often than not fail to get to the semis.

I'd have concerns about the provincial losers getting the 2nd seeds in the group stages.

Over the years there have been a fair few very ordinary teams who have gotten a kind draw/met opposition who didn't turn up/hit a lucky patch in a game and ended up in a provincial final. On occasion you can get a weaker provincial winner which could also make for unbalance groups - given how Tipp and Cavan did in 2020 in their semi-finals, I can't help but wonder what would have happened them if they had 3 group stages to play as opposed to just one semi-final. Also getting to a provincial final could be a massive punishment for a Division 4 side. When London got to the Connacht final in 2013 they had one game against Cavan. If this new structure was in place they would have been 2nd seed and facing 3 games against very tough opposition [a provincial winner, a Division 1 and a Division 2 side] side who all would be looking to run up the score as much as possible. For any Division 4 side getting to a provincial final would look to be massively self-defeating.

I think it would have made more sense to rank the provincial losers as the 3rd seeds [possibly even 4th seeds] with the 4 highest league finishers who didn't win a provincial as the 2nd seeds. If a provincal loser finished in one of the first 4 league places, they could use their league finishing position to move up to the 2nd seed as opposed to the provincial loser 3rd seed.

I think it won't be long before you see some very unbalanced groups in terms of competiveness at the group stages, especially if a weak provincial loser and a Tailteann cup winner end up in the same group.

In the situation above the seedings for the Talteann group stages would have been

Top Seeds - Westmeath, Laois, Fermanagh, Cavan

2nd Seeds - Longford, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford

3rd Seeds - Antrim, Louth, Sligo, Leitrim

4th Seeds - Carlow, Waterford, Wexford, London

Same as Sam - 3 games home, away and neutral with the top seeds getting home advantage in the first game.

After the group stage the top teams in each group go straight into the Tailteann Cup quarter-finals. This is a home game

The four 2nd placed teams will have a home game against 3 of the 3rd best teams and New York. The 2nd placed teams all get to play at home.

The same situation as in the Sam groups will apply in terms of finishing 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

There has been some talk from pundits about sides being desperate to avoid relegation and wanting to stay out of the Tailteann Cup.

I do think sides will want to avoid relegation but that when relegated will secretly be not too displeased at all to be in the Tailtean Cup.

In the example above for instance if there had been a prior year Tailteann Cup winner Offaly would have lost out as the lowest ranked league team.

That would have meant that instead of being 4th seeds and playing three games against one each of (Dublin, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone) (Kildare, Galway, Cork, Monaghan) and (Donegal, Armagh, Roscommon, Meath) they would three games against (Longford, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford) (Antrim, Louth, Sligo, Leitrim) and (Carlow, Waterford, Wexford, London) and then most likely at least one more game and possibly four depending on how results went.

If you were a manager which would be a better preparation for building momentum to prepare for trying to stay in Division 2 the next year. Also given they would be playing Division 2 football they would have a reasonable chance of getting into the Sam Maguire groups the following year.

Its the other way round and the voting on both proposals backed that up.

I really can't see teams being forced to play in Croke Park given how much of an advantage playing at home is and the fact that it's central to the whole structure in terms of being the reward for finishing first in the group and finishing second over third.

I reckon any county board who tried to get a team to do this would face a very real risk of a team downing tools/refusing to fulfill the fixture.

With this Ulster championship been so strong precedence is it a given the Tailteann Cup will be one by an Ulster team each time ?

While largely welcoming the new structure, (anything is better than the current set up), it does give a greater chance for some Div 4 teams to qualify for the Sam #Groups by virtue of reaching a provincial final, eg the weaker team in Connacht where there is an open draw, you could have a situation where Leitrim/London/Sligo are on one side of the draw so one of them will get to play in the Sam group stages. The same 'easier' route is not open to the weaker teams in Leinster and Ulster. Not sure what the story is re open draw in Munster.

The GAA fully admit that the format voted in at the weekend will need a few tweaks here and there. The provincial winners being top seeds is perfect sense as is. Provincial winners should be rewarded with 2 home games. Seedings 2, 3 and 4 should be determined by league placing.

Division 1 winners, Division 2 winners and the Tailteann Cup winners should also be rewarded with 2 home games. If the Division 3 winner also happens to qualify, they should be rewarded with 2 home games.

Winners of Divisions 1, 2, 3 (if applicable) and Tailteann Cup should be placed in different groups. If their is a vacant spot for the reward of 2 home games, a Seed 2 team can take that by luck of the draw.

The Preliminary quarter-finals are unnecessary bloating. The top 2 should go direct to the quarter-finals.

Round 1: Team 1 at home versus Team [3 or 4] and Team 2 versus Team [3 or 4].

Round 2: Round 1 winners against each other and Round 1 losers against each other. (Round 1 winners playing in Round 2 guarantees that the loser will have to win in Round 3.)

Round 3: Both games throw in at the same time. At least one of the two games will not be a dead rubber and that can take all the media attention in the build up.

The GAA have the framework of a good format. Let's enjoy the games! 🏐

Great post btw

But allowing the third placed team into this "preliminary quarter final" means that you eliminate dead rubbers in the group stages.

Going into the last game even a team on zero points is likely to have a shot at getting to third place.

The All Ireland Senior Football Championship Quarter Final Group Stage (a.k.a the super 8) suffered badly from dead rubbers in it short life.

That's a situation where the group is 4-2-2-0 going into the last set of games, with the two teams on 2 points playing each other?

I don't think you should worry too much about them playing for a draw here, because (a) if its a draw only one of them can get a home tie in the next round so the team that would be away in the Last12 is clearly incentivised to go for the win. (b) both of them are still in a situation whereby with a win they could top the group and go straight to the quarter-finals, (c) playing for a draw in a high-scoring sport is inherently difficult, albeit if the scores happen to be tied with 5 minutes left then the game may peter out.

Eh, it's not possible under any system for the group to be won after 2 rounds, so you are coming up with a convoluted method to solve a problem which doesn't actually exist.

After 2 games the most you can lead by is 2 points, so you can always be caught for first place on the last day. I don't believe any team can be mathematically eliminated after 2 games either.

Is it head to head to decide placings. I assumed it was points difference first, hence my claim that it was not possible to win a group after two matches.

I'll take it back if I was wrong. Is there an actual document explaining the new structure in more detail than the superficial level that the newspapers used?

Wouldnt scoring diff be better as less likely to have dead rubbers in Rd 3?

I think H2H is better but scoring diff would mean less dead rubbers

Wont happen though, teams will want to know who and when they are playing, also venue, times etc will need to be decided in advance surely? For logisitics, ticketing, TV etc?

Should the GAA make there video archives public ?

Love watching games from previous years and a few channels on YouTube are great esp 'Tallowmangaa'. That resource I imagine is a huge strain on time for the people who run that channel but no doubt the GAA have enough money/staff etc to create a video archive

Not full games but anyway

https://crokepark.ie/digital-archive