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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    You must mean

    The extreme far right the BBC were investigating in what has actually been a civil war for the past 8 years.

    here in 2014


    Here in 2018




  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    Not only Putin who is dangerous to world peace.

    Oh and this is bang up to date! One of those extreme far right interviewed by the BBC in the above video, now bragging openly about killing for fun and the huge stockpile of weapons he now has, how cool it currently all is and his ideas for a future Ukraine, looks like he does not see it as simply as some do in what he describes as a Europe that has already collapsed.

    Yevhen Karas the leader of Ukraine's neo-Nazi terror gang C14

    28 Feb 2022




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Aprox 5 minutes of search concludes the fraudulent nature of the video you posted.

    Literal disinformation. Iv seen evidence elsewhere that demonstrates some of these videos were staged, days before they were released on Social Media -

    At the end of the day, you are posting here, as is your right. The above video seems to find serious credibility issues with your information.

    Take no offense though!

    • Keep posting if you will. If you provide something credible, i will engage with you in good faith.
    • In my opinion you are (for reasons unknown) passing off nonsense 'evidence' - and if i can demonstrate that, i will (as i have done here)
    • I have not, nor am i going to, insult you. Nor will i respond to insults. I can only advise others to do likewise
    • Nothing you have provided comes from a seriously credible source
    • Your BBC articles are years old, and as i stated before, Russian actions in 2014 (Crimean annexation and arming of separatists) can credibly explain any supposed 'anti russian' feeling in the Ukraine - and today with an invasion underway, i understand said Anti Russian feeling - they have invaded the Ukraine

    IMHO you are convincing no one - while not insulting you? I will say that if one were to allow themselves to spread falsehoods, in favor of an invasion, and in favor of blatant imperialism - one could be called a fool

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    I seriously don't have to read your copy and pasted efforts to accept that Russia is using what ever means for propaganda. Would not accept a word Putin says without checking, would not Biden either or any politician.

    In war all sides use whatever they can, they selectively quote and point their cameras where they have been searching for evidence that matches their story.

    Do you think this is just propaganda from the BBC then

    The extreme far right the BBC were investigating in what has actually been a civil war for the past 8 years.

    here in 2014


    Here in 2018


    Maybe it is BBC propaganda

    if so! What about this extremely disturbing same individual interviewed by the BBC above giving it large in 2022.


    Do you think he was made to say this by Putin?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    • As mentioned previously (I invite you to read my previous posts) -i acknowledge the BBC reports. Are there Far right Nationalist in the UKRAINE. Yes, and the BBC covered it.
    • Is there genuine anti Russian sentiment in the Ukraine prior to this invasion? Yes clearly. Could this have something to do with Russia Annexing the Crimea in 2014, and arming separatist regions during that same conflict? YES - IMHO Russian actions in the Ukraine 2014 are causal to this
    • You have not responded to the fact that your previous post citing Patrick Lancaster - was utter nonsense, and demonstrably so

    So, i will ask you, if i may.

    • Is it your intention to repeatedly post what YouTube videos you can find, over, and over again? I ask as i am happy to respond, debunk, respond, debunk, avoid insulting you etc etc - However i am a bit busy later so
    • Has RT being effectively blocked in the West Impacted your efforts?
    • Are you aware that you can 'in theory' still access RT via their website player? I only mention it as you may find it useful, and i aim to assist all. Also it may reduce the workload of having to find 'evidence' to support your positions

    “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is”

    ― Soren Kierkegaard

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Even the much repeated 'stories' about lack of fuel, holding up the long Russian convoy, far more likely they know its a kind of trap to move any faster, could be heavily mined for all we know.

    😅😅😅😅😅


    Oh man, the whiff of desperation off that. Yes, there might be mines ahead so we should all just bunch up together and not move for days while the opposition know exactly where we are and still have air assets to bomb us. Utter insanity - just shows how poorly its going that there isn't even a sane false narrative to concoct.

    Anyway, this is pointless. There is no excuse for what Russia is doing and there is no point engaging with anyone who thinks there is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    There are reports that 'ukranian' forces (not sure if regular Ukranian army or their far right militia) were retreating strategically from the east and then mass shelling villages with artillery. If you accept these reports then neither side are paying much care to civilians.

    In the Russia Today thread you made the absolutely ludicrous claim that RT was no different to RTE and the BBC in its capacity for producing lies and propaganda.

    I see that you're continuing to attempt to construct a "both-sides" narrative in this thread.

    Desperate stuff altogether.



  • Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    So it's probably going to set a forward base of operation at the front end of the covoy it's just at the limit of there logistic capability from the nearest base in Russia.

    It is also close enough that the artillery can hit most of the capital.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    So, FT are reporting this, but I can't link to it as it's on their live ticker thingy which requires an account. Is it just me or is this one of the stupidest ideas imaginable? Take a bunch of people who have no interest in fighting and embed them in the front lines with already demoralized troops. Still, free equipment for the Ukrainians when they inevitably surrender as soon as they can:

    Russian MPs call for antiwar protesters to face military service in Ukraine


    Two Russian MPs have submitted a draft law to parliament that would call up for military service in Ukraine any Russians detained for participating in antiwar protests.

    The bill, submitted for consideration to the Duma lower house of parliament, proposed to “send for military service in the territory of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics all persons brought to responsibility for participation in unauthorised public events against the use of the armed forces”, the draft law said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech



    Actual Russian company has called for the conflict to end. Probably unrelated : There website is now down

    https://www.lukoil.com

    Worth considering that AFAIK this is the first internal Russian company to specifically go against the grain of the Russian/Putin Regime

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'd be interested to see who the MPs are. The Duma is basically a theatre with different parties playing different roles but almost all of them are controlled by the Kremlin. There are a number of ultra nationalists who say crazy things from time to time, such as Vladimir Zhirinovsky of the LDRP party. Their role is to make United Russia/Putin look sane by comparison.

    I think any such law could be self defeating. The sort of people who felt strongly enough about the war to protest, given the risks, would likely be a massive hindrance in Ukraine. They would likely require a lot of resources in order to force them to do anything useful and they could easily sabotage efforts from within as well. Quite a lot of them seemed to be women as well and I'm not sure if there any Russian women serving in the invasion force in Ukraine.

    I have heard rumours on Twitter that Putin will declare martial law in Russia over the coming days. Alexei Navalny is calling for nationwide protests so it's possible Putin could neutralise those before they even begin. The thing is that that would require a large number of troops at a time that they are stretched so I'm not sure how much truth there is in that either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,967 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Ive seen a lot of journalists and other foreigners in Russia saying they are rushing to the border as the rumour is Putin will declare martial law.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ##Mod Note##

    All - Final remind about the use of Links/Video etc.

    It is fine to post a link to a video along with something like "Listen to what the person has to say at the 5 minute mark , this supports my opinion of XYZ"

    It is not acceptable to post a link and just say "Have a look at this" with an expectation that people should watch an extended video to work out the point you are making.

    Videos and links not meeting the forum criteria above will be deleted from now on.

    Thank you



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    The Ukrainians are behaving impeccably RE Russian Soldiers which is vital - It would be a blunder to miss treat the Russian Soldiers, and im pleased to see this. We really do have to hope that the word gets out.

    The recent (last few minutes) statement from Putin, could be considered a rattled response - We really have to hope that something comes of this. Between this rambling Gobbels-esque statement from Putin, and the fact that oil company, Lukoil, has seemingly begun to condemn the war -

    Putin is still talking as i type this - This is not EVEN REMOTELY credible -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think it's more likely that Lukoil's website was hacked.

    I think it's very unlikely that they would make such a suggestion via that channel, it's tantamount to treason in Putin's Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Iv linked to the news article citing the actions of Lukoil above - now being covered by several news agencies including RTE, BBC and Sky - its a real story - i cannot find a specific link to what precisely was said - but seemingly

    • A call to end the war
    • The website is down - i find it unlikely a hacker group (such as annonymous) would take down a website of a company, moments after it has called for an ending to this conflict. I find it more likely it was taken down by the Russian state, in response to the aforementioned Act of defiance against the Putin Regime


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,898 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Might have been hacked by externals and taken down by the Russian state as the fastest way to clean it up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,872 ✭✭✭amacca


    I dunno, I think you are dealing with a dictatorship that's going full dictatorship..... knowing it needs to stay in control and this is a fight for their survival too.


    I think a law like that if implemented could achieve the main aims of implementing it


    1) Trouble makers disappear to the front line never to be heard from again......the best you could hope for imo is being thrust into the fighting with no back up/support and a malfunctioning rifle to be cut to bits....maybe as a strategic distraction...or when you get there they don't even bother giving you that chance, you step out of the transport and they make you dig your own hole.


    2) anyone else thinking of protesting/spreading dissent thinks twice.


    I think they couldn't care less if you fight well or not or surrender yourself...if implemented that would be about control and survival......but putin will probably come up with a snakier way to achieve it.....people might just not come back from their prison stay for protesting....especially if yhey have any history of posting anything anti putin on social media, membership of unapproved clubs/organisations a journalist etc


    It's grim....but the stakes are high for Putins regime and they won't tolerate much in the way of dissent.....its their survival too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Vladimir Putin statement of moments ago - in it you will hear

    • Neo Nazis are holding hostage the civilians of Kiev and other Ukrainian civilians
    • Neo Nazis fired at 'Chinese Students and foreign nationals'
    • Pay rise for Russian Military

    This sounds rather desperate - i HOPE it is

    There is a segment missing which we might be able to get elsewhere - in which he outright compares this war to WW2 - decrying the 'actions of fascists'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LgDYFu_5fU - doesnt seem to work embedded -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    This is good news although very complicated - Moldova has an enclave within its borders - A russian puppet 'Unrecognized State of Transnistria' - remains to be seen how this is greeted but under the current circumstances, this is a promising development - and underlines just HOW BADLY This has backfired

    Seemingly Putin wanted // and has gotten

    • End To Nato Enlargement // NATO discussions underway in Finland and Sweden
    • End to European Union Enlargement //Ukraine applies, and now Moldova
    • End to European Union hostility to Russia // EU supplying military aid to Ukraine


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Georgia announced yesterday that will be applying for EU membership immediately as well.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    It is NATO they need to join - the EU is an economic alliance.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are several well argued pieces I've read that it is the EU that Putin "fears" more than NATO. Not in a military sense, but in the sense of highlighting how close Russia is to a failed state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I think he fears both TBH - My own view would be that both represent a threat to his rule

    • NATO threat is obvious - this man never evolved past the 1980s view in the USSR
    • European Union - if the Ukraine joins and prospers he ends up having very little way of explaining how another Slavic nation is thriving, with a free press and democracy - while his stagnates and degenerates
    • Other than that, there is clear reason to suggest this man is trying to create a New Russian empire. He has always felt the collapse/dissolution of the USSR was a disaster and a mistake -

    I could provide any number of links to justify the above opinion, but in truth, we have all done so repeatedly. This thread is full of links, articles, docus, and interviews outlining this thinking - that said, if links are needed i can and will provide

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,442 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    In the long-term, I can see how that might be the case, but if I was bordering on Russia I'd be prioritising NATO membership right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,579 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Even if not enshrined in a defence treaty, I find it impossible to believe that EU powers would not intervene militarily should a fellow EU nation be in Ukraine's position.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,325 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    One wonders would it not almost make more sense for these states to form their own self defence pact. There's clearly an existential threat around their gates and in the absence of NATO membership, the EU at best an optimistic dream, some kind of pooled resources might make sense (even if it's combining "meagre" into "not great").

    If an EU state was attacked, I'd see a slowness to respond, if only out of shock that someone would be that brazen.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Greece and Turkey have had several spats - both in NATO and one in the EU, the other an EU aspirant. There was no mention of any intervention - not even the boy scouts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    It would be unprecedented, but then there is nothing 'with precedent' about the last few days- I suspect if Russia was to attack an EU state, it would be an even bigger escalation. There would be responses. Would it be the same as attacking NATO? No - But it would be far worse than what has thus far happened. One wonders what justifications could be conjured by the Russians for such an act. None are apparent to me at this time

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Administrators Posts: 53,752 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    IMO a defence pact between some eastern European nations would not be worth a feck. NATOs deterrence is down to it's sheer scale.



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