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Boards.ie Stats - January 2022

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    #122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722541#Comment_118722541

    You seem to think that your misinterpretation requires an effort on my part to fix, it does not



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    #123
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722558#Comment_118722558

    Isn't that generally how discussion boards work? There won't be a top ten posts list to count if the height of debate is

    It is.

    It isn't.

    It is.

    It isn't.

    Would be no effort at all if you were sure that you were right.



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    #124
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Indeed :-)

    Bottom line - while this is a minor issue, all things considered, a cavalier attitude like this when something has been pointed out as a possible problem, rather than "yeah, we'll check that and get back to you" makes me wonder if there's a similar cavalier attitude in Boards Towers to other more serious issues, like users' emails, IP addresses and security in general?



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    #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722586#Comment_118722586

    Interesting



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    #126
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722633#Comment_118722633

    Very interesting that you're not prepared to open your position to public scrutiny, but expect people to believe you as some kind of act of faith, apparently.



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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723366#Comment_118723366

    No need



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    #128
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723399#Comment_118723399

    No confidence in your own position, more like- just a big fat bluff.



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    #129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723435#Comment_118723435

    Nope, just not a GDPR issue and not my concern if you can't understand that.



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    #130
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723447#Comment_118723447

    Which part of the scope of GDPR quoted above do you disagree with?



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    #131
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118723948#Comment_118723948

    Can we maybe park the "it is"/"it isn't" "debate"? As you said, the other poster is arguing from a position of faith, and if the last two years has taught us anything it's that we now know how pointless it is arguing with a zealot.

    The facts are that boards appears to be

    • processing and publishing personal user data in a way not advertised in their ToS/Privacy Policy, despite a clause in that policy saying they won't do that without permission;
    • this has been pointed out to them by several users;
    • they've responded with a "Nah, it's grand" cavalier answer, which kinda reflects their previous security breaches and the ****-show that was the migration to a new platform;
    • if it's a GDPR breach, the DPC won't do anything anyway.


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    #132
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724678#Comment_118724678

    I think the initial question is 'Is your post count personal user data?'

    I would say no, which puts an end to that. Others seem to disagree, but it seems to do with how it is presented and how long it takes to gather. Which seems odd to me. Your post count, join date and user chosen username are part of every forum I've ever used.



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    #133
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725627#Comment_118725627

    How can your post count not be your personal data? It is data that refers to a natural human.

    It is completely irrelevant to consider how this has been handled in the past. That has zero impact on the scope of GDPR.



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    #134
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725955#Comment_118725955

    So is it your position that the post count under your and my username on here cannot be shown? I'm honestly struggling to understand your position on this.


    On my screen right now it tells me that you have posted 18061 times and I have posted 4491 times and the user before us 2257 times. Are you saying that this appearing on my screen right now is a breach of GDPR? In no way does it identify either of us, in any conceivable way. Does me posting those figures mean I've just committed a breach? I just can't understand but I'm hoping I'm just missing something.


    Edit: Spelling mistake



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    #135
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725627#Comment_118725627

    Your post count, join date and user chosen username are part of every forum I've ever used.

    Generally yes, they are.

    What's not part of every forum is the admins pulling a report on 'top posters', for the current and previous month, and publishing that.



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    #136
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726268#Comment_118726268

    Can you direct me to what bit of GDPR this breaches? Presenting information in a different way/timeframe is a breach? (if it's a big document with a million clauses then don't bother, not looking for you to waste your time!)

    All time post count = Cool?

    Monthly post count = Not cool?

    It's that discrepancy that's tripping me up on understanding the consistency of your arguments I think.

    Post edited by DoctorEdgeWild on


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    #137
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726332#Comment_118726332

    It’s not a monthly post count. It’s a top ten list, based on the monthly post count of ALL users. That information is NOT in the public domain today. The decision to publish it should not be taken lightly.



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    #138
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727143#Comment_118727143

    Think we'll have to agree to disagree, I don't think it is in any way a breach of data protection, nothing about it identifies a user in any way, or gives away any information that isn't available should someone very sad want to click and count to pass away their hours.

    As before, if it is a breach, and you, or other users, want to protect yourselves from your relative monthly post count being used against you in some way, there is a data commissioner available, although as you mentioned earlier I think, they probably have bigger fish to fry than a monthly top posters ranking on a web forum that is anonymous.



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    #139
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726332#Comment_118726332

    I'm not going to google the full GDPR, but you're presumably familiar with the principle that says personal data should not be processed except for the purpose for which it is collected - that would be the obvious starting point.

    E.g., when I sign up (thereby agreeing to the ToU, PrivacyPolicy, etc.), those policies - being GDPR compliant - say in essence "We will use your personal data to process your requests to post to boards (and for PMs and troubleshooting and all the other necessary techie bits assumed when joining a website like this); and we won't do anything else with that data unless a) we are required to do so by law, or b) you give us your permission."

    Now, though, they are running a report that singles out the top ten users, ranks them for the last month and the month prior, and that information - not available to anyone else - is then published.



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    #140
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727200#Comment_118727200

    Yep, I'm with you on the first part, I understand the basic principle of the GDPR is to protect people like you and I from having our personal info used in ways we don't want it to be used. Scams, leaks, hacks, contact databases for sale etc.

    But I assume your name is not TaurenDruid and mine certainly isn't DoctorEdgewild, those are two handles we both chose many years ago so that we could post on here on a discussion site.

    Surely GDPR primarily covers stuff that is identifiable to our real life identity? Like our email address we signed up with, our bank details if we ever paid for subs, our passwords etc.

    Our two usernames don't identify us in any way, therefore the number of posts I make in a month using that username is not my personal info under GDPR unless Boards connects it to my real life identity.

    (As before, I am open to education on this, but my position is outlined above)



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    #141
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727238#Comment_118727238

    If you check my posts from a day or two ago, you’ll see that data linked to online identifiers is personal data for GDPR. Many people are not anonymous here, for a whole range of reasons.

    You couldn’t collect this data manually, because you’d need to view each users post count at midnight on the first and last day of the month. This is physically impossible.



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    #142
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727996#Comment_118727996


    I think it would be more important to get clarification as to what the actual top 10 list actually means. I am apparently in poll position where you are not even on the list. As I mentioned before there are posters that post more in a day than I do in a month.

    @Boards.ie: Odhran any chance you could actually explain this?



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    #143
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728054#Comment_118728054

    I assumed it was a list of the top ten overall posters for the month, but clarification would indeed be helpful.

    Just to be clear, my concern is not about me appearing on the list. It is extremely unlikely that I would be in a top ten poster list. Regardless of that, this is a clear breach of GDPR, to publish data about individuals like this without their consent, and with no legitimate purpose of processing.



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    #144
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728068#Comment_118728068


    I was not expecting to be on any list either but from a GDPR point of view could not care less I am not using my real name.

    What I would like to know is what the list actually means as it's clearly not most posts per month so posting it without the metrics seems a bit pointless.

    Think this could have been cleared up weeks ago.



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    #145
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727238#Comment_118727238

    Ok, so my understanding of GDPR is that a username is personal information. Just as an address of 23 Main Street, Dublin, isn't immediately identifiable as your address (unless someone looks up a phonebook or sees your name on a bill addressed to 23 Main Street), it's still personal info. Your height or weight or eye colour also don't identify you, but again - it is personal info.

    Your understanding of GDPR is that no, a username isn't personal info. Fine, I get that, and understand your position.

    Odhran/boards has published the top 10 users over the past two months, without their prior knowledge or permission.

    Given the doubt, the prudent thing for Odhran and boards to do is not to say "Ah, pretty sure it's grand - we'll leave it there unless most people want it taken down." The prudent thing to do where personal info is an issue is not to process it other than for the purpose it was given; and certainly not to publish it.

    To be honest, that's the biggest problem I have with this.

    I'd say the chances of Ha Long Bay having told their boss that's their username on boards is fairly small, after all. (I'd say stephenjmcd's boss might possibly figure it out, though, if they also use boards? And I'd also say there's a greater than zero chance that many boards users use the same handle on other sites.) That's beside the point, though.

    The point is, a valid concern has been raised, and rather than addressing it, it's apparently just been dismissed. Which makes me wonder what Odhran/boards do when news breaks of a zero-day exploit, or that there's a new update available for X system. Is it another case of "Ah, pretty sure it's grand."

    It's not like boards hasn't been hacked at least once, after all.



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    #146
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728085#Comment_118728085

    Whether you care less or not is completely irrelevant. Whether @Boards.ie: Odhran has 'consensus' from some users (or some of the more vocal users) is completely irrelevant.

    It is STILL a breach of GDPR to publish a top ten list of monthly posters, when this hasn't been covered in Ts & Cs or privacy policy or similar. There is no consent from users to have their details published like this. There is no other legal basis for this processing.



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    #147
    Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee Posts: 148 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee


    Nothing has been dismissed @TaurenDruid. We are taking advice.

    In the meantime the top 10 thread will be taken down and no more stats published going forward until clarity over all counted stats - including posts counts, views, thanks etc fall under GDPR.

    Thanks for feedback.



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    #148
    Ha Long Bay
    Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728254#Comment_118728254

    Can you just explain what that top 10 list actually is and how did I get to P1? Also still no sign of my new prize which I believe has been downgraded from a new car to a weekend in Leitrim in a 2* hotel.



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    #149
    DoctorEdgeWild
    Registered Users Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I'll leave you to it folks, it's clear we won't be agreeing on this one. Disappointing that after a barrage of calls for more community engagement from Boards, they engage, and get this response.


    @TaurenDruid Thanks for your explanation, I better understand your position, but disagree.

    @andrewj Since you are adamant that you are right and no room for interpretation, I repeat my suggestion that you could go to the data commission to prove your point. I disagree for all the reasons I've posted above.



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    #150
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728290#Comment_118728290

    2nd prize is two weekends in Leitrim.



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    #151
    Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee Posts: 148 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Odhran
    Boards.ie Employee


    Unfortunately we have had to give the car back … but with the price of fuel maybe not a bad thing. I’ll come back on the P1.



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