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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 744 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Yes, i was wondering if they would try to unify as the Russians approached.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,343 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    They have to sign up to adopting the Euro just like Sweden did in 1995. Of course neither have to adopt the Euro until they meet all the financial criteria.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Which they can choose never to fulfil.

    That's the beauty of an agreed fudge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Ukraine's foreign minister has said if the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant blows, it would be 10 times bigger than Chernobyl.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭zvone


    I cant believe there is almost no resistance there. If they couldn't dig in at least brigade at surrounding ground to defend power plant, they shouldn't try to fight at all. There was like four Noonan securities there and Russians just drive in, shoot around, and take over. Now I watching CNN is in Odessa. They preparing for desant from the sea. This could be like little Normandy (with opposite side, good guys will be at defence). Beach is unfortified, there is no anti-tank obstacles, no mine-fields!? Sometimes I really doubt about how competent is Ukrainians army officers...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The power plant is not going to "blow" so its really just for effect. It shouldn't be repeated by so many news agencies though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Power plants are not designed to withstand military assaults,and this is a Soviet era station,I'm sure when the Soviets built it they didn't think they would be bombing it themselves years later.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Power plants don't "blow". The explosion at Chernobyl was a hydrogen gas explosion and the same physically can not happen with any power plan currently in operation. There is a risk of loss of power to the coolant as happened in Fukishima but comparisons with Chernobyl are well wide of the mark.

    It is objectively not a good thing to be happening but Ukraine's FM comment is just wrong.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fair enough but they could destroy the coolant system or, knowing how incompetent Russia's army is, use explosive ordinance.


    Simply: Don't attack nuclear plants



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Indeed. Massive amounts of gas and oil around crimea.

    Huge amount of fertile land for growing wheat (indeed it’s dubbed the bread basket of Europe).

    Access to the Black Sea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Egypt saying at the start of the week they'd 9 months before they run out as their own production is far lower than they need, they mainly bought from Russia. They put a tender out and cancelled after they got in a few from the US and France as were all too expensive. Bread is a huge staple of most of Africa, it's something like 40% of the calories for Egyptians and a lot of them have to already have huge subsidies on it to make it affordable.

    Russia and Ukraine's supplies weren't feeding the world evenly it was mostly going east and south, and with 20-30% of grains from there dependant on type of grain now removed from the market it's the bottom that's going to feel it. I buy Dunnes' cheap 99c loaves if that's 1.50 I won't care but the equivalent elsewhere now they've to import more expensive wheat is going to be a huge increase as it moving to more expensive sources to begin with that will now be in more demand.

    If this last too long there will be another Arab spring.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,343 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    EU is self sufficient in most foods and there's some subsidises. UK farmers may benefit or at least have less competition. Canada and US export a lot. It will be interesting to see if US tries to maximise profit or political influence.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Having attened miliary history courses and remember the Chernobyl disaster, this is both a brillant and dispicable Russian move. The spectre of fear that a discharge of a cloud of radioactive gas across Europe was one that haunted a generation and it will be sure to concentrate the minds of the ongoing peace negioators as Russians engage with 4GL (4th generation warfare).



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Perhaps Ukraine and Moldova joining EFTA might be a more realistic near term objective, giving them single market access without the political ramifications and economic and development requirements of joining the EU. EFTA would have to be modified somewhat - EFTA members pay development funds directly to developing Eastern European states whereas Ukraine would be in receipt of same.

    But it might be a more achievable step that could take place within a matter of months if there was agreement from the EFTA members to do so.

    Ultimately, the Utopian ideal would be for the EU and the Eurasian Union to have one large single market and customs union. The idea being that although there are two separate political polls, ideologies etc, integrating the markets is the ultimate way of securing future peace.

    Economic sanctions are the only option that the EU has at present. But ultimately it is counter productive. At some point, whether its this year or 10 years' time, they will have to offer Russia the economic carrot and not just the stick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Russia and Ukraine produce more grain than the US and EU combined, that along with the fact Russia is the largest exporter of fertilizer followed by China both of whom had already blocked exports. Canada is third so maybe they'll increase theirs local use and increase food production but that'd be at the expense of other markets and it still means the poorer parts will have huge shortages.

    You and I aren't going to go hungry, the prices will increase but we'll pay and a moan about inflation is the worst it'll cause, the rest of the world has less choice.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,343 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Taking the power station means less electricity to go around.

    The invasion began on the day Ukraine tested synchronised with the European ENTSO-E grid instead of the Russian / Belarus one.

    Ukraine has transmission links with Slovakia, Hungary and Romania, though none are operating while Ukraine is in "island mode".


    https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-moldova-seeks-connection-to-eu-electricity-grid/ The country has 734,000 tons of coal stock on hand, enough to last 15 to 20 days. The government, however, has ordered all thermal power plants to switch to burning natural gas in case rail transport from coal mines in eastern Ukraine is blocked. As much as 40 percent of renewables are offline due to cut transmission lines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Fukushima was due to leaks between the cooling water and the reactor and then the cooling water and the environment. Unless it's breached from the attack (which is possible) the worst that can happen is a huge cost to recommission it when this is all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    We are long past the rate of increase that drove the Arab Spring and that's before the incredible surge in Agricultural costs have been fully factored in.


    Every input is nearly double.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We end up praying on the Ukrainians behalf I guess, but its not going to bother us. Also, Fukushima just wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. Everyone doesn't need to lose their **** just cause a nuclear power plant is involved.

    It's bad but we are not really talking any serious risk of a significant contamination event. Ukraine's far bigger problem is going to be the potential loss of electricity production.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,884 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    How are sanctions "counterproductive" here? The sanctions are not IMO to win the gentle hearts and minds of the poor suffering Russians and convince them how bad Putin is or some such.

    The point is to ruin Russia in so much as that can be done, make it very hard for them to tool up their army post invasion and maybe start all over again on someone else (in the EU this time) once they've (likely) beaten Ukraine into the ground, and either have it governed are are attempting to govern it under some horrible Stalinesque regime hunting down all these "Nazis" Putin says infest the place.

    Other goal would be to terminate their influence over us and end dependencies on them. For examples, see the way that UK is (seemingly - if media are correct) having a very hard time going after oligarch wealth because it is highly addicted to inflows of dirty or opaque money and has set its stall out to provide services for such, and much of the rest of Europe is exposed by being overly dependent on Russian energy suppplies.

    No carrots for Russia after this war. edit: Not till Putin is gone anyway which with bad luck could be guts of 20 years yet, and Russia also undergoes some sort of change in politics/policy etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Also on the sanctions, it is believed that Putin wanted/hoped for a quick war and to keep Russians in the dark about it. A "nothing to see here" type situation.

    That's now ruined as the sanctions that impact people's everyday lives at least mean they can at least see something has happened. Even the simply stuff like apple Pay or Spotify etc. not working.

    Putin will still try to control the narrative domestically, but he cannot hide it entirely and has acknowledged that something has happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,207 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Is there something to be said for repatriating ALL Russian citizens rather than the knee jerk idea to expel the diplomats?

    While the diplomats provide a line of communication to the Russian government (and one which is arguably more necessary than ever during times of war); the oligarchs are clearly part of the cabal and should be sent home with nothing more than the clothes on their backs but the ordinary Russian citizens living and working here and in our European neighbours under various visas would be a way to send a strong message back to the ordinary Russian citizens that the rumours they may be hearing aren't just western propaganda and that the dictatorship running their country is diplomatically and economically burning it to the ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The Russian narrative was that the Russian speaking populations of Ukraine would be happy to see them and welcome them (in the same way that the Crimean Russian speaking citizens did in 2014). The towns and cities that they have occupied so far in this invasion have all been in Russian speaking areas and they have not been welcomed by the local population - to put it mildly.

    Earlier I saw a tweet with a video purported to be Russian citizens transported across the border, by the army, into southern Ukraine. This was apparently in order to stage a "spontaneous" celebration of Russian troops taking control of a Ukrainian area. If that is true then it will likely pop up on Kremlin media in the next 24 hours. Something to watch out for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I think punishing ordinary Russians living in the West would be both morally wrong and also counter-productive. Unlike the oligarchs they aren't benefiting from the regime nor have they have any influence on it. It would also provide fodder for Russian propaganda efforts and increase the persecution complex of ordinary Russian citizens in Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,207 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    If it's a punishment to repatriate them, it's a reward to allow them to stay and I don't see why any European nation should be rewarding Russian citizens while their country invades our neighbours.

    Besides, we're already punishing the ordinary Russian citizens. The sanctions won't hurt the wealthy elite in any real way, it'll be the ordinary citizens who suffer.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Because they have nothing to do with it? It achieves nothing but satiating some people's lust for vengeance.

    They're "allowed" to stay because they are here legally with visas just trying to live their lives. This is both a silly and deeply mean-spirited and unhelpful suggestion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    They could be using some of their wages earned here to indirectly fund this murder machine if they are sending home money



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    A) They will struggle to send any money home with the current sanctions.

    B) I like not to deport people from their homes based on a hypothetical

    Seriously, this is about as good an idea as internment was in the States in WW2.



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  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They are here because they don't accept the life in Russia. Also they will phone home and tell people what is really happening. We should get more of them



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