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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I said people like you, learn to read what your replying to before going off the deep end. We are in a different world since Putin invaded Ukraine, calling people hysterical because you think were safe is pretty small minded and narcissistic after the last week in my opinion.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's quite simple and I'm really scratching my head why this isn't bloody obvious; in every other war where the US/NATO went in the threat of thermonuclear armageddon wasn't on the cards. Even the many proxy wars the East and West were involved in during the 20th century. When the risk of thermonuclear armageddon was on the cards in the Cuban missile crisis, both sides blinked and for good reasons. Never mind that the wars the US has jumped into didn't exactly go to plan for all concerned, save for arms dealers and other bottom feeders.

    Let Russia destroy Europe and the West

    More hysterics. Russia is having a hard time destroying a nation they thought they could just roll into and even if they look like they've won in a week, they'll be bogged down in a bloody insurrection that'll send more and more bodybags back to Mother Russia. An attack on Europe/NATO would make their Ukraine misadventure look like a kid's playdate, with ice cream for all. And well they know it.

    The same Mother Russia that is going bankrupt by the day, that will be cut off from the vast majority of the rest of the world, whose airlines have to skirt all western airspace, until they run out of parts for their aircraft and can't fly anymore. Hell, since yesterday Aeroflot can't even take bookings. Their banking system is fúcked. Their currency costs more to print than it is worth. Forget western governments, the corporate world is attacking them and hard and in many ways on a day to day basis they actually have more power. Western governments actions and rhetoric hurt, but corporate actions will send them back to the good old days of the Soviet Union, but not in the way Putin dreams of.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    There's a difference between knowing what's going on and speaking about it or against it though, especially when you look at how protesters are being treated in Russia and the threat of 15 years in prison for the mere mention of war etc, I think we could be mistaking Russian peoples fear of speaking about what is happening with an ignorance of what is happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    To paraphrase Spock in 'The Wrath Of Khan', that's very two dimensional thinking. The borders of a country include the sky above as well as the real or implied lines drawn on the ground. Sending in aircraft is exactly the same as sending in ground troops, which is why NATO has been unwilling to do that or to declare a no-fly zone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭redlad12


    Well the world is not as safe as it was since last week that's for sure. Don't know how much safer Brazil is tbh. People like me , you have zero clue about me so deep end I went. Cheers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228




  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's fine, but at the end of the day they know what's happening and are choosing their reaction. There can be no claims of ignorance among most of the population any more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Rossi IRL


    An Aeroflot plane went from Moscow to Budapest through Poland. Thought they were banned from that airspace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They are but flights seem to keep popping up in banned airspace ,I would have thought they would have started to intercept flights and force them back to Russian airspace



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I wonder if its a case of a leased plane being repatriated OR the leasers were able to get it permission with the hope they can try impound it in Budapest.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    They know or have a fair idea what's going on alright, but they have a very different reading of it, born of multi generational cultural propaganda and an odd mix of fear and admiration of the state. If they have too different a reading of it to the state, they'll tend to keep quiet.

    Even the Russians I've know living and working in the west, some even married to westerners, it's has been both fascinating and shocking to me how much of that old Soviet bullshít they buy into. The Give me the boy I'll give you the man principle at work. At best if pushed, their goto response is avoidance and deflection to the bad things 'The West' has done. If everyone is bad shure nobody is 'argument'. When anybody has to run to deflection and avoidance you can be sure their argument is thinner than a Parisien runway model, that they haven't applied any thought to their hand me down opinions and are afraid to do so, because they know it's bullshít that they'd have to admit they're believing.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Should let them land and then seize the aircraft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,354 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Any chance the UN can send in peacekeeping to defend the nuclear stations. Surely it’s in everyone’s interest that there’s no bloody explosions near a nuclear reactor…..



  • Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    There were reports when this all started that the Russian forces had mobile crematoria with them ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger




  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It sounds crazy to say at this moment in time, but eventually people will realize that Russia and the EU need to be working together to counter the might of the two real dominant global powers, China and the U.S.

    Infighting like this on European territory suits those powers better than it suits us. We (as in Europeans and Russians) need to be sure we are not being played.

    If the Putin regime could be removed, by Russians, say this year, collaboration should be on the table. End of punitive sanctions. Free elections. EU membership. Time scale: a generation. (I suffer from bouts of optimism.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭The HorsesMouth


    This is true. There was a lrish woman on the radio who went over to live in Russia age 14 to study ballet. She stayed over there for years. But Yeltsin was president when she first came and she said they never got paid, they were living on next to nothing..she said she used a razor to slice her vegtables to ration as much as she could. Putin came in and three months later everyone was getting paid properly. So you can imagine if you are 40+, in a blue collar job, maybe you've never travelled, basic level.of education, you watch state tv...you are going to view this man as a saviour. And I'm pretty sure those type of people make up a significant percentage of the russian population.

    All we can hope is the economy tanking wakes up some of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,185 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I don't see any reason for Russia to do that. Controlling the power stations is power over electricity. Why would they not want that?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭snowgal


    In fairness, that's very easy to say from this side of the world. That is the problem, they have grown up knowing no different. They see someone who has improved the quality of life there. For every one person to speak against him there's probably another 5 to say their nutters. Its not as easy as flick a switch and oh yes we get it now, this mentality is engrained in Russia. I hope they eventually see him for what he is, but I dont think the world has time to just sit and wait for that to happen either.. Its infuriating sitting here at my desk (meant to be working! 🙊) hearing all this going on, minute by minute people being killed and not doing anything.. I am probably the least confrontational person people know (apart from when it comes to bullies) but I really believe at this stage, we (Europe, NATO, The world) need to take on this bully directly. I mean when you strip it all down, it comes down to basic human decency here. how can we sit here and look on at what is happening to Ukraine, that Mr playground bully wants a toy that doesn't belong to him, and we're sitting back saying ah he shouldnt be doing that, but we're not stopping him either!

    sorry rant over now.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Great post Wibbs. Putin has completely miscalculated his own military capabilities and the world response.

    How do you see it playing out?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭threeball


    Too much anti tank weapons and piss all SAM or anti aircraft weaponry. The place should be covered in drones taking out these missile launch sites.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Yeah maybe we should try and integrate production and manufacture and try to foster economic inter-dependence like the EU. Except Europe's been doing that for a couple of decades with Russia. Can argue "That's just about making money" but I think that's an incorrect (at least partly) assessment. Russia has shown it cannot be trusted and the people of Russia so far seem fine with that so they have a lot of rehabbing (20 years to get to where they were 10 years ago and another few decades at a minimum for economic restructuring) before they should be treated as anything other than a nutcase in the corner with weapons that can end humanity.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Putin's brave peacekeepers protecting the world from a father, son and their dogs


    All the Putin bots, Putin apologists and but but both sides assholes can go f*ck yourselves



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It sounds crazy to say at this moment in time, but eventually people will realize that Russia and the EU need to be working together to counter the might of the two real dominant global powers, China and the U.S.

    The US is a waning power, who let their rich offshore their manufacturing base to China, lining their pockets while the American poor grow and their middle gets increasingly squeezed chasing The American Dream(tm) that's a lot harder to chase than it was. In the midst of Covid and this latest horrible distraction, China is looking down the barrel of the largest asset bubble in world history, their economy runs on slim profit margins and they're rushing to get rich before they get old and the demographics are against them. Europe and the EU is more stable than either, with a much narrower wealth and health and living standards gap than either. Europe is doing OK. More than OK. Actually in world history of the last 3000 years it's been a rare enough time when Europe wasn't doing OK, or wasn't the dominant economic and cultural power.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    He has absolutely miscalculate everything and it all comes back to his own self imposed bunker syndrome. During Covid he isolated himself multiple times and reduced and reinforced his inner circles so nobody will tell him no or give bad news which means he was being fed completely wrong info leading up to this about the way Ukrainians would receive russian tropps all the way to the state of the russian military itself. I go back and forth on this but the only way i see this going is Putin eventually being ousted by military with the backing of the oligarchs but it wont happen i dont think until there is visible mass public discontent so when that might happen is a question nobody can answer.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I posted earlier in the thread about the Russian psyche, but accepting all that stuff means they have to be treated with suspicion (and maybe disdain). Whatever the reasons behind it all, we are where we are and if they lack basic faculties on a mass scale then we need to bear that in mind.

    I think it was this thread I shitted on about different groups in politics. High-info principled voters, high-info selfish voters, low-interest voters on each side etc. Point being in the last week we've seen them go from not knowing to not caring. Whatever the reasons for getting to this point it's the point that we're at now.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They will handle civilian airliners in a civil manner (impounding planes etc). They are not going to start sending up jets to intercept civilian planes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    I was watching a bit of the Fox news yesterday. Chomping at the bit some of them are to go in some how.


    One ex general was saying that they could send fighter jets o the Ukrainian military and give them some fighter pilots, serving or ex military to fly them


    Apparently it's not without precedent, it was done before



This discussion has been closed.
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