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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Id be absolutely shocked if you can find any post that says Japan doesn't matter. Unless it's in the context of "its 2022, the world Cup in Japan three years ago doesn't matter"

    Your entire post comes across as a sulk because the players you want picked aren't picked.

    Hume got on the pitch against Italy. Rb just isn't good enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    With the loss of Porter, our tilt with England is tougher. But, we know this. We know there's a lack of depth in areas of the squad. We can still win, of course and can still finish 2nd.

    18 months out from a world cup and In the worst possible grouping, the idea of Healy or Kilcoyne being back ups, or even starting matches, is a long shot. If Porter goes down during the early stages of the world cup.... we'll be home early.

    Farrell has to get someone involved, who can step into the role. If that's Healy or Kilcoyne, we won't go far. But, if they are the better option, so be it. I doubt the summer tour will be used to blood new players. Imo, it should be. The older lads should be left home. There's nothing gained bringing Sexton, Healy or any older regular to NZ.

    There's still time. There are opportunities to get lesser players involved, who knows, they may be good enough!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭TRC10


    The team that played Italy was an exciting one no matter how you spin it. Hume has been given his chance against Wales and Italy.

    Farrell has always been strongly inclined to give young players chances, so I'd imagine there's good reason for Coombes and Baloucoune not playing. Baloucoune did start v Argentina and didn't set the world alight. He's given two 23 year olds debuts in the first three games of a 6N ffs, and people are complaining about him not giving youth a chance.

    I find it ironic that the same person complaining about the performance v Italy is also saying we should have made 9 chances to the starting XV from the previous game. Because that's a great way to optimise performance.

    Even if the 3 guys you named had started, you'd have found something else to moan about. If rugby angers you so much I'd suggest you consider turning off it for a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    Farrell has shown many times that he’s more than willing to give someone a start if they show the potential. The sad fact is that currently there is no one else who can step up in a couple of key positions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    That's true enough! But, there's no harm in bringing someone to N.Z, other than Healy. Whether it be Loughman or whoever. Gametime v NZ, could be the making of them

    As it stands , Wycherly is nowhere near the level, Milne has been injured all year! Boyle is 19 and will probably be an international in 5 or 6 years. There's nobody really out there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭MrTea


    this is a lazy response, but I remember one of the irish rugby podcasts pulled some numbers on this, and basically we're doing well with this overall and above average.

    England were much worse at the time. It would be interesting to see some infographics on it though, or even just basic numbers. I'd love to hear an open policy from the IRFU, senior mens teams on what their aims are, not just spin, but to set our their stalls on the aims. Including if aims are monetary as many claim, e.g. winning a decent 6N pot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Rob B is good enough. His problem is he's not IQ like Hansen and Lowe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭MrTea




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    He's Irish born and bred and came through the irish system and not Irish Qualified like Hansen(parent) or lowe (residency) which seems to carry more weight.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Some try from Robert Baloucoune. Raw pace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Or funnily enough both are left wings and baloucoune is a right wing. Who is being kept out of the team by Conway. Who happens to be, checks notes…. Irish born and bred. Just more xenophobic bs from you really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Actually I need to apologise. I thought you meant Ross Byrne.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    And I'm not xenophobic. I just think we don't use the rules intelligently enough.

    We play 3 IQ backs against a second tier team like Italy.

    Our biggest issue consistantly over the past few years is we get bullied up front by bigger more physical teams.

    France for example bullied us at the breakdown last month. England too over 19/20.

    France have identified and supplemented their homegrown talent with FQ players like Antonio and Willemse who are 20kg and 10kg heavier than their opposite numbers When playing us.

    We on the other had supplement our homegrown tallent with a small player who's been a sub scrumhalf all his career and a flighty winger who seems to lack concentration.

    My issue is not that they are not born and bred irish, its that they don't offer a significant improvement on our alternative current homegrown options.

    If we are going to use IQ players it should be "go big or go home" and in the front 5.

    We produce plenty of scrumhalves; Murray, casey, blade, cooney, mcgrath,doak etc and plenty of decent back 3 players Conway,Earls, baloucoune, larmour, keenan, lowry o'brien,zebo etc

    That's my issue with the IQ players



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    At this point I don't think you know what IQ means.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Good response. 👍

    You are aware you can become Irish Qualifed by residency or be irish qualified by your heritage. IQ can stand for both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    You can also become IQ by being born in Ireland, and living in ireland all your life. IQ means you are allowed play for ireland.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The entire is squad is IQ by definition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭MrTea


    What's your own IQ? I'm picking up a sort of prejudice that I don't like. I would greatly disagree with your take, but I've no interest in talking with you any further.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,385 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    I've heard this a few times... But I really didn't see this quality performance in France that others seem to have



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭MrTea


    I don't think he did anything outstanding to look at, but when the context is considered it was good on a few levels.

    He showed phenomental mental fortitude after barely any rugby this season to make his 6N debut start, in a huge match and do the basics well. Arguably this was the 'final' of the tournament, against the form side in the world at home, in Paris! it was about as tough as it gets.

    He was dropped into start late in the week, but slotted in well, attacked well, defended well and kicked his points sublimely. That's pretty damn impressive, in this sort of furnace of pressure, from my perspective.

    It indicates to me that he has phenmonenal potential, if he was to get a run of decent test matches, as that is literally as bad as he gets, he will only grow from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    He didnt make any mistakes, which is big, because media would have went to town on him if he had. Carbery is a safe 10, remember he kicked the ball out for the losing bonus point against Japan. not many would have done it. A steady 10 who will kick goals



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    His first half in France was poor-to-middling with plenty of mistakes. His second half was middling-to-fine. He got plaudits for a 'great' performance in France because he didn't s.hit the bed. A 30 cap international should be expected to not s.hit the bed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭TRC10


    When you think about it, there's quite a bit riding on this weekend.

    If we win we're in prime position to pick up a triple crown (not that triple crowns should be the sum of our ambitions in this era, but it's a bit of silverware and you'd rather win it than not)

    A win also keeps us in the hunt for the championship, depending on France's result in Cardiff on Friday night which won't be easy for them. A long shot because the championship is France's to lose.

    If we lose, it's been three poor 6Ns in a row for Farrell. And one could argue that bar one good November series, the Farrell tenure has been a poor one. That wouldn't necessarily be my position, but one could make that argument, and no doubt certain people will should we lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Lowry should have been capped before now so its not really something to praise. Hansen has gone well (ish), but we had people say at the start he wasn´t a right wing and thats why RB wasn´t picked. yet there he was playing right wing. and i don´t think Hansen is the better winger. he was a like for like replacement for Lowe who is clearly being fast tracked back for the English match.

    don´t be arrogant and suggest anything to me. it doesn´t anger me but we are clearly making similar mistakes to before. i hope we beat England and we can. But if we lose we will have you and all the usuals saying nothing to see here.

    Hume, RB and Coombes should have started a six nations game. now it seems unlikely there will be a window for it to happen in the next while. hardly a **** controversial thing to say ffs. we had alot of talking heads say RB should have started in the first place. we want pace, athleticism, size. yet there are three lads not getting picked that fit that bill. Italy was a perfect match to try it. 9 changes? again its hardly like it was experimental. and yeah even with experienced guys playing, it was a relatively shite performance. it would have been fine having a shite performance testing out the odd option. You could still have the front liners along with a combo of those lads. but they weren´t even on the bench.

    a big one is needed this weekend coming, or its kind of back to square one really. and we will back ourselves into that inevitable corner that we always do. oh we can´t do a or b cause we´ve got a 3 test tour, a november series, etc etc. Like Mack Hansen has been good but it doesn´t mean he should be a bona fide starter now. Lowry imo is the better rugby player than Keenan. But Keenan has the 15 shirt nailed on. Can we say Doris is our nailed on 8? again he´s been good in some games, and poor in others. Conan was invisible against France. i can definitely see the case that Coombes will end up a Roger Wilson mark ii and we will have people bleat on and on about size. we always fall into these traps. Van Der Flier non central contract is a case in point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Back three straight shoot out.

    Left wing: Lowe v Hansen

    Right wing: Conway v Baloucoune

    FB: Keenan V lowry.

    No real stand out utility player for the 23 Jersey. Carberry can cover FB so need more of a wing/ centre cover. Hume maybe.?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    Keenan, Hansen. Ringrose, Aki, Lowe 23.Henshaw

    Beirne prob going to play 6

    Kilcoyne prob start ahead of Healy



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Baloucoune should be starting for me.

    Conway is a good, reliable player, but we know his level and let's be honest, he's not going to massively trouble any of the big boys when it comes to the crunch in a world cup knockout game. He's not in the top echelon of international wingers like Kolbe, Penaud, LRZ, VDM, Mapimpi or Jordan. Baloucoune could get to that level and has been in electric form, he needs to be given a chance.

    Casey and Carty should be in for Murray and Carbery.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Loughman called up, hard to see him featuring without more injuries though.

    Larmour injured, he wouldn't have played anyway but tough for him to miss out on the camp when his rivals are playing well. I see Jimmy O'Brien not involved this time around.



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