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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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    #18752
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733453#Comment_118733453

    Do you question why our governments is "cancelling" Russia, including media? No? Then why do you assume your Russian counterpart is any different?

    People generally believe whatever the TV tells them. If you go outside that, you'll be attacked - in Russia and here.



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    #18753
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,399 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733571#Comment_118733571

    They would have been talking about clover. It isn't really the "future" as that has been done for decades now. They are pushing it to be done more dilligently but that is for environmental reasons. And again, it only helps with the nitrogen part of requirements.



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    #18754
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733348#Comment_118733348

    I reckon that perception of their competence was born of Cold War fear, revved up in importance by the Americans on top. Well those nice military contracts need filling. The Americans constantly over played the Soviets capabilities, even when a fair few knew much of the threat was BS. Their nuclear arsenal was the big concern. If they never got that they'd be bit players. The Chinese developed their nukes with the help of the Soviets and their armed forces used to be a joke. A huge one, but a joke. And the West got worried about them. Nukes are the game changer essentially. You have them and everybody's afraid to say boo to you, even if you had an army consisting of three blokes in a shed with shotguns and your navy was a lad in a rowboat. With a slingshot. If Russia didn't have nukes NATO/UN peacekeepers would likely be crossing the border already.

    If you look at Russian military history it mostly consists of brave troops hurling themselves in human, or tank, or aircraft waves. It works, but it's bloody and costly. In pretty much any evenly matched battle I can think of they were routed in short and decisive order. Even in very lopsided affairs like Finland they were pushed back by a determined and skilled opposition losing men and material in double quick time. If nukes weren't on the table and the Americans went into Ukraine today in a conventional war situation I'd be shocked if the Russians survived a fortnight.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #18755
    Addmagnet
    Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733571#Comment_118733571

    Phosphorus is the problem - it's present in, er, 'night soil' but to get it in the quantities required for industrial-scale fertiliser production it has to be mined from some very specific areas of the world. I think China (of course!) and Morocco are top of the league?

    Bat guano used to be big business for its phosphorus content :p



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    #18756
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,517 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733585#Comment_118733585

    Don't forget though that the vast majority of people don't use social media to "read the news" but instead to interact with each other. There is a big difference between the EU blocking Russian news media websites like RT and Sputnik (who would only even be read by a tiny number of Putin fans) and Russia shutting down huge social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.



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    #18757
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733585#Comment_118733585

    True, though an attack in Russia has far more risks involved. Personally I think the Western shutdown of Russian media was a big mistake. Censorship always leads those you're trying to reach look like you're trying to hide something.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #18758
    DontHitTheDitch
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733325#Comment_118733325

    It’s a puzzling one. I suppose it’s an absolutely huge country, and their Mig 29s can take off from a decent stretch of road. I have wondered whether Ukrainian aircraft can use the airspace of surrounding countries to duck in and back out. Maybe they are rarely flying at all. For the Russians, it may be that their intelligence isn’t up to snuff so it’s very hard to pinpoint worthwhile targets in advance. Then you have the surface to air missiles making life very hard for attack helicopters.



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    #18759
    Bayonet
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bayonet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733581#Comment_118733581

    Yep. The old boys are mostly loyal, it's the younger generation they need to control. The knowledge of VPNs is pretty widespread now. They're advertised on every podcast. I'd imagine many of the younger generation will bypass the blocks with ease.



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    #18760
    bb12
    Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭bb12


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733567#Comment_118733567

    most of our and the world's potash comes from belarus and russia.

    belarus weren't supposed to be exporting it in recent times because of the sanctions in the last year or so, but they had done a deal with lithuania where it was basically being sneaked out of the country.

    there's a massive crisis currently for all farmers eu-wide re fertiliser shortages. even the us farmers are starting to have difficulties

    that's inevitably going to translate into food production declines later this year



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    #18761
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733624#Comment_118733624

    "Interact" is a big word for people vomiting up bitterness and bile against faceless and dehumanised targets of opportunity tbh :)

    Twitter is a cesspit. Facebook is corporate spyware. If they are "cancelled" in Russia, then it might be a genuine improvement for people there. However I am sure there is some domestic Russian equivalent which is just as toxic if not more so.



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    #18762
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733513#Comment_118733513

    Look, the events in Odessa were horrible, and nobody should have lost their lives, most of all the innocent people that were in the building.

    But I'm not letting you get away with calling the gang that descended on Odessa as merely pro-Russian protestors as if they were handing out flowers and hitting the peace pipe that day. You know full well those protestors were bused-in and armed to the teeth, including with Kalashnikovs and grenades and attacked a group of football fans (who were no choirboys themselves). The major violence started when the pro-Russian gang waded into the football ultras and shot one of them dead. Things rapidly got out of hand until the pro-Russian gang was corralled into the trade union building and the football ultras hurled a petrol bomb. There is serious evidence that the police were involved in the set-up to attack the football ultras in concert with the pro-Russian gang.

    There is a blow-by-blow account of the day that is definitive by an organization called the May 2nd group, I'd encourage people to read it instead of someone seriously burying the lead calling organized violent instigators with deadly weapons as protestors.

    There were no heroes that day. Not even the pro-Russians.



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    #18763
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733490#Comment_118733490

    No one. That's the big problem.


    If Belarus stop their fertilizer exports that's 40% of potash gone as well globally.


    The 2 largest, by some margin producers and exporters of fertilizer are not exporting now, China and Russia.


    The effect on global food supply will be significant.

    Look at the little disruption, that led to the Arab Spring. This is several orders of magnitude bigger. , No comparison.


    Tens of millions affected? There will be countries where that happens. Nevermind globally.


    The agri inputs crisis is the global story that no one is talking about and it's one of the biggest stories in the world now.

    Post edited by Danzy on


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    #18764
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733465#Comment_118733465

    You're missing the fact that Ukraine couldn't join NATO or the EU anyway, since it was partly occupied by Russia to begin with and had endemic problems with political corruption, therefore there was no pressing need to invade. In my opinion, the likelihood is that the invasion was called largely because of Putin's increasing paranoia. He's probably been stewing about this for the past couple of years in isolation. We can see how far apart he is on the subject in relation to some of his advisors in that televised meeting with government officials, shortly before the invasion commenced with Putin commanding one to 'speak plainly' as the man in question stumbled to answer about his view on the Ukraine situation.

    Now, as it relates to Ukraine taking a neutral position on even the ambition to join NATO or the EU, the problem is that this is a position the country cannot take if its public vote in officials running on a pro-Western platform, and its public would be doubly motivated to do so in future. That is unless we're to say that the Ukrainian elections would be rigged, but that in turn begs the question as to why the Ruskies or, indeed, the pro-Russia incumbents couldn't rig it in their favour in the past instead, then. It's hardly as if Putin is a stranger to such methods.



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    #18765
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733681#Comment_118733681
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733685#Comment_118733685

    Speaking of which...



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    #18766
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strong words from retired US Army Colonel Douglas MacGregor:

    -The Russians have very carefully avoided damaging infrastructure

    -Ukrainian forces taking refuge in population centers, using civilians for cover

    -Zelenski is a puppet, acting under instructions. Needlessly endangering civilians. Not a hero.

    -Most of what comes out of Ukraine - retaking airfields etc - is proven nonsense and lies in 24-48hrs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Bmv9LzhNk



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    #18767
    Dazzel
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Dazzel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733510#Comment_118733510

    Can I ask on what basis do you believe this to have been the objective?

    Firstly, 1) I think Russia invading was its 'last resort' option when its other methods of intimidation failed and the west called its bluff. Putin himself has stated during his meeting with business officials that he was "surprised" that the west did not compromise due to his military buildup, leaving him with this course of action. I think this is highly believable.

    2) Russia's only interest in Ukraine is its military-strategic importance as a buffer zone. Its capture of Crimea secured the most valuable assets including its untapped gas reserves.

    3) Russia did not prepare its population for war in the weeks and months leading up to the invasion (and even days after the invasion). Which indicates it was the unexpected and last resort scenario for them.

    4) Their military preparedness appears to be extremely weak as can be observed from its deficiencies on the battlefield. Indicating the invasion to have been more adhoc and haphazard than a plan seriously considered for a long time.

    5) For Russia to "hold" Ukraine, either with its own forces or its support of a puppet regime would be extremely costly and perhaps impossible with its current military capability and resources.

    6) The 'last resort' invasion route, caused by the hardball politics of the US/UK/Zelensky appeared to not only surprise the Russian leadership but also Nato allies like Germany and France.

    Finally, while Russia has now invaded, and given that this I believe is their last resort course of action, I think they are making it up as they go along now. They tried to quickly overthrow Zelensky and or instill a quick shock to force compromise - "takeover" was not their objective. That this did not work out they are left fighting a full scale invasion scenario for which they really didn't anticipate or intend as their most likely scenario.



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    #18768
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,443 ✭✭✭jmreire


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733195#Comment_118733195

    And the survivors of that bombing ( MOAB) stumbled and crawled out on their hands and knees, bleeding heavily from their ears and nostrils.....and possibly internally as well. For sure, there was not much fight left in them. When you think that these caves were buried under a mountain, it does not bear thinking about what they would do in a City.



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    #18769
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733625#Comment_118733625

    Personally, I disagree. RT News is a money making business, and every money making Russian business should be shut down as far as possible. Not to shut down free speech, but ...



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    #18770
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733513#Comment_118733513

    The house arrest of Medvedchuk is what started this invasion, last year.

    Medvedchuk was chairman of the largest opposition (pro russia) party. Zelenskyy banned his tv channels, froze all his assets (incl oil/gas pipelines) and put him on house arrest. The next day, Putin put 3k troops on the border. That started the build up.

    As you said, Medvedchuk is a Putin ally. Putin is godfather of Medvedchuks daughter, Daria.



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    #18771
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733694#Comment_118733694

    Look if you want to beatify a group of extremists that turned up with Kalashnikovs and grenades and shot football ultras dead under organized police cover go ahead.

    If I had my way, no one would have died that day and it was all utterly reprehensible. But once again you're playing serious games trying to frame the pro-Russians as mere protestors.

    The real victims of that day were the innocents caught in the trade union building.

    The families of all the victims deserve justice and answers, and anyone who was involved in any deaths brought before a court of law - but tell the truth about what happened, not the version you want told.



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    #18772
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733398#Comment_118733398

    Still bad mouthing ALL Russians I see.

    This is Putin war.

    Do you really think the population of Russia are in favour of Ukrainian men women and children being killed?



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    #18773
    Pussyhands
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733715#Comment_118733715

    People in this thread won't like to hear it, so it's fake news!



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    #18774
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733625#Comment_118733625

    I am in two minds about it to be honest. If you have identified a state or an ideology as your enemy then you're not obliged to let them speak.

    However, if you claim your position is one of liberty, free exchange of ideas and competition and the enemy is an evil, authoritarian regime that crushes dissent then outright bans on alternative points of view becomes more problematic. I saw a speech (from a couple of year back) by a Russo-American media figure (I can't recall his name) that apparently began his career as a journalist in the USSR. While in the USSR he encountered US media who were impressed by him and invited him to go on US TV to put across the Soviet side of the story to the US audience. He was able to go on US TV and put arguments forward that were then argued against by a US counterpart. He considered this to be a sign of strength, of the confidence the US had then.

    He remarked that it would be impossible today.



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    #18775
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    You are aged 14-40 in Russia.

    Twitter down.

    Facebook down.

    Snapchat down.

    Netflix down.

    Apple down.

    Instagram heavily restricted.

    Telegram heavily restricted.

    Online gaming heavily restricted.

    Major porn outlets are down.

    You can't buy stuff online.

    IKEA gone.

    Adidas gone.

    Nike gone.

    IKEA gone.

    Your debit card doesnt work

    Apple/Google pay doesn't work.

    Queues at the ATM.

    The last couple of independent TV/Radio just go shut down.

    You can't buy a flight abroad.

    You don't compete in international sport anymore.

    All those concerts you were looking forward to this summer are cancelled.

    You've bought a tickets for stuff and the refund hasn't arrived yet.

    Stock market closed indefinitely.

    Does Vladimir Putin really believe he is fooling them?



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    #18776
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733715#Comment_118733715
    https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/former-trump-appointees-russia-rhetoric-matters-rcna17957
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/watch-fox-reporter-scolds-col-macgregor-for-sounding-like-a-putin-apologist


    That's Col. Douglas MacGregor, former Trump administration advisor. Putin apologist of the whataboutery school.



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    #18777
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733774#Comment_118733774

    Let’s hope the Russian masses overthrow this bastard soon.

    I don’t believe for once second war is what the Russian people want.

    They are being kept from the truth and those that find out and speak out are at risk of prison or worse.



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    #18778
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733761#Comment_118733761

    I don't mind hearing it. It's just a longstanding Putin supporter making the same claims that every other Putin supporter is making.



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    #18779
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733735#Comment_118733735

    Yurt, that is pathetic. You're asking me to extend you credit that you don't extend to anyone else. The fact that someone as partisan as yourself is even pretending to be concerned about that incident betrays how awful it was.



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    #18780
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733761#Comment_118733761

    That man is a kook. Look at his wikipedia page, he talks about "Muslim invaders" turning Europe into an Islamic state and that Mexicans crossing the southern border should be shot.

    Small wonder he found a home in the Trump White House and as a talking head on RT and Fox.

    Does it feel weird being in agreement with a kook like that PH?



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    #18781
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733768#Comment_118733768

    There is no argument for the Russian invasion. It's not about a point of view. Putin want's s what he want's and he intends to get what he want's.

    The whole NATO thing is just an excuse for the invasion.



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