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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I hope the coalition of chaos lasts another 3 years. They will have a rough time of it because they have set us up for increased discontent.

    It also takes time for FF and FG to be completely perceived as the same dodgy entity and voting option.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I remember Fianna Fail coming out with an absolute extravaganza budget in the early 2000s. Money for everyone. They were loaded on fake boom money. Maybe it was the one where the government gave every family a one off 1000 euro for every family with children or was it every child? Anyway, everyone was going to be happy - social welfare recipients, public sector workers, private sector etc etc. It was a free for all. I wondered how the opposition would respond...

    Richard Bruton came on the radio that afternoon and said the government hadn't gone far enough. I could not believe my ears.

    Idiots.

    Not another red cent was another one.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    They had a target to reduce quangos and public sector allowances and failed miserably. It was embarassing how they bowed to the vested interests. Remember Howlin coming into the Dail and said he could only reduced the allowances by 5% of the original target! Some of these allowances were completely redundant too. Idiots.

    Fine Gael set up the biggest superquango of them all - Irish Water.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The delusion in FG is they think this is forgotten...a bigger version of the Labour party, navel gazing about why they are about to dip into the teens in support. They are in serious danger now of going the same way as Labour = irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,656 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It seems this is the new FG thread, but let's also recognise that FG has been in power for 11 years now, and will be in power for 14 years when the next GE comes around. Its always an uphill battle in terms of popularity, but suffice to say, if/when they are not in government, some people will have buyers remorse.


    SF/CnG: 1922-1932 - 10 years

    FF: 1932 -1948 - 16 years (a record)

    FF: 1957 - 1973 - 16 years

    FF: 1997 - 2011 - 14 years

    FG: 2011 - 2025 - 14 years, will be one for the record books as it's not FF.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Longer they go on, longer Sinn Féin get closer to a single party government or something very close to that



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What's really interesting is what the tacit merger is doing to core support in FF and FG, There seems to be about 10% floating around. More and more releasing that 'hey, other than different logos, this is same deal'. Next step is look for a different deal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    They pulled their biggest fast ones in the first few years of Kenny as Taoiseach. I love the way FG being in too long is a defence or a reason why their support has dropped. Do people think the public are happy and just fancy a change?

    Didn't Kenny give out about FF saying 'we all partied' and then said 'we all went mad' after he got in?

    I know Noonan said it was insulting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They preyed on a down and almost out people with their 'new politics' nonsense. A con job the public haven't forgotten



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    IIRC the only thing in their "5 point plan" that they actually attempted, was the Seanad, which insanely was kept by vote. They obviously had to attempt that one, as it would have been noticed if they tried to ignore it like the rest, even though they did delay it at least once, presumably waiting for the wind to change.

    Re Cronyism - Enda was the most blatant abuser of cronyism I can ever remember seeing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Enda made a pigs ear of abolishing it because he didn't care IMO.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was kept because a chance to reform it wasn’t an option, unfortunately. I think most people see the need for the Seanad, but not in its present format. A reduced number who sit for a set number of years, regardless of general elections or the makeup of the Government would have been my preference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Nonsense.

    This issue was No 1 on the New Politics document. The bullshit FG document.

    Enda Kenny promised to reform it after the shambolic referendum.

    In December 2014, Enda set up an independent working group on Seanad reform chaired by former senator Dr Maurice Manning. This group published a comprehensive report in 2015, which the current government committed to implement. Yeah right. This report was the 14th such report in 40 years on this issue.

    In the meantime it is used as a dumping ground for failed TDs and they certainly milk it for all it is worth without actually doing anything. Uber expensive.

    Shame on the power swap for their lies of reform over the past few decades.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Politics isn't the Premier League chief. Talk about being blinkered to the power swap!

    Here are some numbers for you.

    FG TDs

    2011 = 76

    2016 = 50

    2020 = 35

    The recent polls don't show buyers remorse around the loss of 41 TDs

    Get the lemons ready...

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The power swap's share of the vote says it all, from a high of 86% down to 42%(?) at the last GE.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You misunderstand my point. In the referendum we were given two choices. Abolish the Seanad or keep it. We should have been given a third choice, to reform/reduce it. That would have been my, and I’m sure many other voters, preference.

    Id also favour a reduction in TDs and County Councillors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,682 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Well, that was the point, no more power will be given to the Seanad (why would the Dáil ever do that), so why vote to keep it? It's a money suck talking shop that could be replaced by a set of experienced advisors (some could come from Uni, other from trade unions) to the government and get rid of all the nominations entirely



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yes and after the referendum Enda promised reform because it was clear nearly 50% wanted it abolished and even the ones that voted to keep it really wanted the Seanad as a governance/oversight entity for the Dail i.e. they did not trust our TDs who had ruined the country.

    In December 2014, Enda set up an independent working group on Seanad reform chaired by former senator Dr Maurice Manning. This group published a comprehensive report in 2015, which the current government committed to implement. Yeah right. This report was the 14th such report in 40 years on this issue.

    FFG have promised reform for decades. 14 reports later with great recommendations, we are no closer to reform.

    The Seanad now represents the culture of Cronyism for FF and FG.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The problem with the Seanad is the way it has been used as a rest home for politicians out of favour or as a reward for support. No better illustrated than by Regina Doherty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭howiya


    Senator Lynn Boylan another good example. How many elections has she lost now?

    Sadly the current programme for government only mentions the Seanad four times, two of which were in the same sentence. None of these to do with Seanad reform.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,958 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes they all use it that way, but Regina stands out as the prime example as she led the campaign to abolish it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Sure why would they want to reform it. The 11 Taoiseach nominations were;

    • Mary Fitzpatrick, a Fianna Fáil councillor the Cabra-Glasnevin constituency. She has run in four general elections and one European election, but failed to win a seat.
    • Lorraine Clifford Lee, a Fianna Fáil senator in the last Seanad. She lost out to Green Party candidate Joe O’Brien for a seat in the 2019 by-election in Dublin Fingal last November. At the start of the campaign she had been forced to apologise for a number of tweets from 2011 about Travellers. 
    • Erin McGreehan, a Fianna Fáil councillor in Louth, she was a first-time candidate when she won her seat on the council last year. 
    • Timmy Dooley, a Fianna Fáil TD for Clare from 2007 to 2020, he lost his seat in the general election in February and was an unsuccessful candidate in the 2020 Seanad election. Before that, he had been a long-standing front-bench spokesperson, but was one of the TDs involved in the Votegate controversy
    • Regina Doherty, Fine Gael who was Minister for Social Protection in the last government will be the Leader of the Seanad. 
    • Aisling Dolan, first elected as an Independent councillor on Galway County Council in May 2019. She ran in the 2020 General Election for Fine Gael in Roscommon-Galway and is thought to be a good bet for a Dáil seat when Ireland next goes to the polls.
    • Emer Currie, a Fine Gael councillor who ran unsuccessfully in the February general election. She is also a former director for the country’s largest advertising and marketing agency. 
    • Mary Seery Kearney is a councillor on South Dublin County Council for Fine Gael and a practising barrister. In March, she was a last-minute candidate for the Seanad Labour panel because there was an insufficient number of contestants.
    • Vincent P Martin, a Green Party councillor in Kildare and also Catherine Martin’s brother. He missed out on a seat in the Dáil in February’s election. 
    • Róisín Garvey, a Green Party councillor in Clare. Her father Flan was a Fianna Fáil representative on the local authority from 1985 to 2009.
    • Eileen Flynn, a Traveller activist for more than a decade, she has campaigned on anti-racism issues, marriage equality, housing and abortion rights. She will be the first female Traveller in the Oireachtas. 

    It really captures the essence of the Seanad for FFG. Checks and Balances - yeah right.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,373 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    From Fine Gael's New Politics document

    Traditional constitutional theory suggests that Second Houses are an important part of the checks and balances within a political system. However, there is a basic problem at the core of this proposition: o If a Second House is democratically elected by the people, it tends to be dominated by political parties and quickly comes to resemble the first House, thereby undermining its rationale for existence. o If a Second House is not elected by the people, in order to make it different from the First House, a serious democratic deficit is created which erodes its legitimacy. As a result, its powers tend to be limited.

    All too often Second Houses, like the Seanad, embody the worst of both worlds. They are not democratic enough to enjoy popular support and not different enough to do their job properly.

    Twelve reports have been published by committees of the Oireachtas on Senate reform in Ireland – ten since the adoption of a new Constitution in 1937. Yet the Seanad has not been reformed in any significant way.

    Ireland currently has 226 members of the Oireachtas - 166 in the Dáil, 60 in the Seanad. This equates to 1 member per 19,912 people. As Figure 3 shows, the principal reason for Ireland’s over-representation is its two-chamber or bicameral system. If one ignores the Seanad and looks solely at the Dáil, particularly if the number of TDs is reduced by 20 as Fine Gael proposes, Ireland’s representation is in line with countries that have a similar population. Ireland is significantly over-represented because of the Seanad.

    I voted for these clowns for 20 years. I don't understand why people still trust them with anything. I will not vote for these liars again. I could not rationalise the duplicity - I cannot fathom those who do.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    2 County council elections in Kerry,was an MEP for 5 years, Seanad since 2020, lost by- election in 2021.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Petrol at 189.9, Diesel at 185.9 this morning.

    Expect electricity companies to announce rises in the coming week. Tight few months ahead for many.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I'd happily keep the entire thing if we all got a vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I'm sure the data centers will get a tax exemption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭howiya


    You might tell Lynn she got elected in Kerry coz an interview she did in the run up to the 2014 European Elections she spoke about her lack of success down there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We've enough specialists and advisors as is. We simply should not have public representatives who are not elected by the public. The whole system is a hangover when only the wealthy connected had a voice. Maybe fill it with a rotating set of the public picked by lottery?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    You asked how many she lost, 2 council in Kerry and by-election in Dublin



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