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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭Field east


    I came across a n opinion recently that part of Putins strategy is to wait for an opportunity/ develop a narrative and then make a move . This part of country A are Russian speaking, move in a few ‘mercenaries- letting on they are locals not happy with the way the gov is treating and develop unrest, confusion, etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,451 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    This is what would be happening in Baltic States if they werent in NATO. All the talk of Putin being còncerned about NATO on his borders is nonsense as he would pounce on any neutral even where that brings him closer to NATO.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Sounds: you said: "Considering Nato are suppose to protect EU states, are they afraid once Ukraine are in the EU, they'll have to do something about Putin and the war will escalate further?"

    First: NATO protects NATO members, not EU states. Second, Ukraine will take many years to achieve EU membership, even it its candidacy is accepted in principle. you should get the facts and the timeline right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    Never suggested cancelling ordinary Russian’s visa/ mastercard. Interesting you didn’t quote my post re the effect of the devaluation of the rouble on the Russian population.

    The Above post you quoted was in reply to questions around supporting Ukraine due to the existence and extent of neo naszi’s support in Ukraine. It was posted several days prior to individual companies / organisations pulling out of Russia and the subsequent affect of this on the Russian population. I haven’t been back to this thread in a number of days. I stand by my assertion that Putin needs to be stopped. I have not in any shape or form advocated for increased suffering on the general Russian population.

    Please debate in good faith and stop taking posts out of context to generate tks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    First of many I'd guess but Hungary has banned grain exports to fight potential shortages and inflation there, Turkey and Argentina doing similar but not full bans. Moldova too but they're small and close so probably more effected.

    Ukraine itself it 10% of world grain production and Russia is another 15-20% dependant on the type.

    Will be covid protectionism again, and unlike a face mask the likes of Africa and Asia can't fumble on without grain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Asia mainly rice?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Like f*ck they will. If they want to sink their own economy they'll do that. The greenback is undefeated and will remain the world's reserve currency for a long time yet.

    Despots worldwide harbour a fantasy that someday / somehow the dollar will be replaced - with what exactly? If you say the crypto-digi-petro-yuan or whatever fantasy land gimmick comes out of Beijing, I've already stopped listening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    South east Asia maybe, lot of bread and other grains in India and Pakistan and middle east.

    It's all connected so reduced supply on one increases demand in the other.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Well those sanctions that have zero effect in Russia as per Putin...

    Retailers in Russia will limit sales of essential foodstuffs to limit black market speculation and ensure affordability, the government said Sunday, as sanctions imposed over Moscow’s military incursion into Ukraine began to bite.

    Full article for above can be found here but can easily be googled as there are plenty of articles on the topic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    Exploited by Oligarchs on both sides, we know the Russian ones, but this is both sides exploiting poor people - Ukraine is also owned by a few





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    There has been speculation for many years that Russian Minorities 'left behind' after the dissolution of the USSR would be used as justifications for excessive Russian Foreign policy - They refer to ethnic Russians in these states as the 'Near Abroad'

    (Further reading by Sergey Karaganov - Russian Political Scientist and Public intellectual - Straight shooter in my view)

    In terms of the playbook:

    • Decry 'ill treatment of Russian minorities in the 'near abroad'
    • Arm them, encourage declarations of Independence within specific tactically advantageous regions
    • recognize these 'states', and have them 'officially request Russian Assistance'
    • Move in with 'special military operations'

    It bares striking resemblances to the 1930s. I have said in a few places, to a few posters, that we have been down this road before. I usually frown when someone plays the 'Hitler card' (comparing a state to NAZI Germany, and their leader to Hitler) - In my view, we are beyond that now, comparisons are justified.

    In terms of what next, i think it will be important to watch countries with large Russian diaspora, which border Russia or Belarus (Screengrab below from Wikipedia - up to date as of 2017


    Ignoring the 'far abroad', and concentrating on said 'near abroad' - The Baltic states, Moldova, and other former SSR's would seem likely targets. We should certainly watch for

    • Accusations of mistreatment of Ethnic Russian Minorities, with Moldova/Transnistria being obvious targets (especially given Lukashenko's 'map revelation')
    • Grandiose declarations, words to the effect of 'Russia believes in the rights of all people to self determination' - in this new situation, the west should read said declarations with extreme skepticism
    • Observe with skepticism the machinations of Russian Proxies within said states - SPECIFICALLY Transnistria, where there is arguably an unofficial Russian Military presence.

    Links can be provided to back up all of the above - did not include as have done so (as have others) throughout this thread -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Just to add, I wouldn't be surprised if Putin magically "finds" evidence that Ukraine was developing weapons of mass destruction at these sites.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Just announced on BBC NEWS CHANNEL - BBC World News Channel has been taken off the air - this is NOT the Russian Language version, which as i understood, was already off the air.

    This is the BBC World News Station - broadcasts from various European/Eurasian Satellites outside the UK

    Cannot find link to confirm this but literally just announced -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    Despite the simple narrative - this war did not start last week, or even in the Russian invasion and taking of Crimea in 2014.

    13,000 dead in a effective civil war in Eastern Ukraine (Donbas) since 2014 , over 50% were those who ally identify with Russia


    But this has much longer horrific roots, of the most evil terror carried out by Ukranians of both main identities (Greek ethnics have also long lived there among others, nothing is ever quite so simple as the news)

    This has generational roots


    Nothing like as simple as the news, as supplied by corrupt politicians & wealthy oligarchs are who are exploiting it (both sides)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭schmoo2k




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Alleged letter from an FSB whistleblower: Thread by @igorsushko on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

    Some very plausible insights...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    It's very hard to predict what's happening in this man's head now. I see him being very dangerous and mentally unstable. Whatever comes from his mouth is either lie or threats.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    Also an interesting interview with captured Russian police (assuming its true, if not it is some Oscar worthy material): Another interview with captured Russians. If this is real, it's big. : ukraine (reddit.com)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    As stated to you multiple times - and on multiple threads

    • The Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea, along with ARMING the separatists, CREATED THIS PROBLEM in 2014. There are Far Right Groups in every country on earth btw but, oddly enough; If your concerned about tiny numbers of nationalists in your neighbors territory? DON'T INVADE AND OCCUPY IT.. but of course the whole thing was engineered in any case. for exactly this scenario - the Hitler comparisons are justified. He did the same thing in Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland.
    • Even this problem which was low level (equivalent of Dissident IRA in the North) was NOT a justification for what is going on
    • the separatists in the Donbas were armed in 2014 by the Putin Regime
    • The whole world (and its neighbor) knows this
    • The wikipedia page you provided is for a conflict which ended 70 odd years ago -
    • You keep posting the same stuff, over and over again.
    • You are literally disseminating propaganda (yes, i know some of your links are BBC - read point one. consult a timeline of events)

    Here is a simple timeline

    • Ukraine changes directions - ousts Pro Russian puppet from Power 2014
    • Russia Invades annexes Crimea 2014
    • Russia armed separatists in the east of Ukraine 2014
    • Everything you tend to refer to - *AFTER 2014*


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ODriscoll


    Against the background of what is a civil war of different identities going back to WW2 & before.

    this is the context to understand

    On French television, CNEWS, Anne-Laure #Bonnel, French war reporter, talks about the horrors the population of Donbass has been living since 2014.

    States the Ukranian army have been carrying our war crimes since 2014 against their own people, those Ukranians who speak Russian and consider themselves as part of the Russian (Eng Sub)

    Part 1/3



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    'Against the background of what is a civil war of different identities going back to WW2 & before'

    This is a lie @ODriscoll - Equating what is going on to a 'civil war' - is a Kremlin backed Lie, being used to justify a Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

    You are either

    • A troll getting a kick out of this (in which case you should be ashamed of yourself)
    • Genuinely believe this nonsense (in which case you make a fool of yourself)
    • purposefully spreading nonsense (in which case, you should by now realize, that you convince no one)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech



    Another escalation. Speculation that the Tranistrian enclave, and its possible/eventual annexation into Russia, have been offered here before. But this is now adding to the current crisis. Blinken is in Moldova atm. I dont think it mere fear-mongering to suggest that the above was timed to coincide with his presence

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The Ustaše fought with the Nazis and massacred Serbs during World War II but that doesn't excuse what Arkan and the JNA did at Vukovar in the 90s.

    Time to grow up and own your actions. There are no justifications for the invasion of Ukraine, just paltry excuses given by the weak.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Can the US enter into an ambiguous bilateral treaty with Moldova, similar to Taiwan, without involving NATO?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Usual Caveat - i studied IR which included a module stream on IO (International Organizations and Institutions)- i am however not a career diplomat/politician etc-

    The short answer is i dont know

    The long answer

    There would be precedent for the US to declare that it will regard an attack on <insert region, hemisphere, etc etc> - as an attack on the US - See Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy declaration. What is clear is that Anthony Blinken is currently IN MOLDOVA - So IMHO anything that happens was timed. Bottom line is this sounds like Sabre Rattling - but then so much did before all this kicked off. Moldova has applied for EU membership too which needs to be noted

    But, i dont know.

    EDIT -If it becomes clear and obvious that something is going to happen RE Moldova - it would be important for the west to act BEFORE the Russians. It puts the Russians in the position, that the west finds itself in currently. (i.e. it would mean: Nato is in Moldova- does the Russian Federation propose they ATTACK NATO)?

    Also: Moldova would obviously be encouraged to REQUEST this presence etc etc

    SECOND EDIT: Any presence speculated above would probably be restricted to the DeFacto Territory of Moldova - i.e. it would not be within the contested region of Transnistria

    DeJure - Moldova is a sovereign state with full autonomy of action, and complete control over it territory

    DeFacto - Within the territory of Moldova the Enclave/Unrecognized state of Transnistria exists as a self declared independent state. Moldova does NOT have effective control over this region

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    This is going to be a huge global issue this year. You'd have to wonder how much wheat Ukraine will be able to grow, harvest and export this year with what is going on all over the country. That will to have a huge knock on affect on many African countries especially but will likely feed into food price inflation in many regions.

    What's more is that Russia and Belarus are two of the three largest suppliers of potash in the world. Potash is a key ingredient of fertilizer (It's the source of the 'K' in NPK). Both are now facing severe sanctions. That's going to have knock on affects for agricultural production all over the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Fertilizer was excluded from sanctions I think but the shipping issues will effect that, and some Russian official made mention of banning exports.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Wendover Productions on YouTube has done a very helpful illustration of just why and how the Russian invasion stalled over fuel and supplies; maybe it's simplistic for some but helped me understand why it only took 2 or 3 days til the advance ground to a halt. Seems like the Russian army has learnt nothing since the Cold War and basically has no rigourous structures for supply.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Didn't understand a word of that lad. What are you rabbling on about?

    🌝



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    80,000 refugees coming to Ireland.

    Many are going to object to that, personally i have no problem if we take 180,000.

    But the government better make sure they seize the billions that wealthy politically connected Russians have in this country and use that to pay the bill first.



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