Message from Cycling Ireland President

Morris Garren · 23-02-2022 10:55pm

The Edwin Poots moment in cycling. How old are the dinosaurs?

ednwireland · 23-02-2022 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118681051#Comment_118681051

Yes, yes you should.

Casati · 24-02-2022 11:55am

So we are left with no Treasurer, Secretary or President, and rather than inviting interest from the membership to fill these roles via a general meeting, the two board members remaining have taken a very questionable step of getting Sport Ireland to appoint new Directors.

Despite all the legal training it seems that none of them have read the Memorandum and Articles of Association and the members are basically cut out with no communication relating to the KOSI report or its implications for cycling in Ireland and the budget impact resulting etc. No detail too regarding the Evo Pro issue being shared at all, despite this obviously being a massive issue leading to three board resignations. V disappointing.

wpd · 24-02-2022 1:24pm

I have been a cyclist in ireland for over 30 years racing and leisure, I was looking at the appointments to the board last night and dont recognise any of the names. why are there not more on the ground cycling people involved it seems the board is almost on a corporate footing?? Is this possibly why Liam Collins was met with "opposition" to his plans because he is too grass roots??

Macy0161 · 24-02-2022 1:33pm

Like most, I wasn't at the agm, but if it's reflective of every club (and Trade Union and other groups) I've ever been involved with, it's extremely rare there's an actual election between 2 candidates. More often, there's not enough volunteers to fulfil the requirements for a functioning board/ committee!

Chips Lovell · 24-02-2022 1:55pm

As per the Irish Times today:

In a statement, the outgoing president said there had been “concerted opposition” to his agenda. “There have been irreconcilable – and much publicised – issues however at Board level, and it appears it is not possible to pursue the work I had intended to,” he said.

I'm still none the wiser as to what Collins' agenda was and what the nature of the opposition to it was.

I hope that some information will be release prior to the EGM because, as a club, it's difficult to formulate a position on events when you've no idea what the hell is going on.

Junior · 24-02-2022 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684910#Comment_118684910

And it seems as if he was doing publicizing of said "issues"

Weepsie · 24-02-2022 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118684728#Comment_118684728

Part of the problem is the board was made up entirely of cycling people no? Older men, of a certain generation, with the same stake outlook of cycling , who it's for and who it should be for. Men of the road types that are a bit of a dinosaur. Great servants maybe, but lacking the professionalism needed for the roles, and unable to see beyond their own particular area of interest meaning the actual association can't make any meaningful change

wpd · 25-02-2022 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118685840#Comment_118685840

Part of what problem exactly??? I don't understand what problem you are referring to that had to be addressed. TBH i find your post very insulting to anyone from a cycling background that has given up their time to serve on the board. I know a lot of them and they stand in the rain most weekends marshalling at races.

We will see what hiring professional board members brings and what is achieved in the coming years. what i have seen so far is a lot of money on a new website but no progress on a velodrome.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot · 25-02-2022 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689890#Comment_118689890

I do like the new website in fairness, big improvement on the last one.

Weepsie · 25-02-2022 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689890#Comment_118689890

That's it. Marshalling races and giving time to their club. So **** what. hundreds more do so too. There's far too much stock put into lads who keep the A1-A4 cohort happy, or have done a RAS, and too little given to what skillset might actually be required to be on this sort of board or organisational committee.

Where is the push for women's races at board level and increased support. Where is the push for getting underrepresented groups cycling? The actual professional staff in CI are trying to get loads of things done and are hampered by a board who just because they are keen cyclists and have been around forever and volunteered, doesn't make them good at being on such a board.

There's a place for them certainly on the board. but if they can't see that it needed some experienced heads whom maybe come from outside that little bubble, then there's a problem.

cletus · 25-02-2022 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689890#Comment_118689890

I'm not speaking for Weepsie here, but I'll give my perspective. I love cycling. I love bicycles. I have no interest in racing, group rides, joining my local club, or the velodrome. I asked here before what a membership to CI offered me. The answer seemed to be nothing much at all. The organisation seems geared towards those who want to compete.

Now I've no figures on this, but at the very minimum, I have to assume I'm not a constituency of one.

Weepsie · 25-02-2022 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118690069#Comment_118690069

And even at "those who want to compete" it's mostly men who want to compete. Women's cyclocross? Na, go in the B race.

And this isn't down to the paid staff at CI. They're understaffed, overworked and are hampered by a board who have a very old school view on who and what cycling is for.

Macy0161 · 25-02-2022 11:35am

I'd again point out that clubs are crying out for volunteers. I'd guess most "elected" at the CI agm were also elected unopposed. tbh, it all reads "someone else should do something".

wpd · 25-02-2022 11:37am

I appreciate you explaining "the problem" which i am summarising from your posts as: previous racing cycling men on the board are hampering the board promoting womens racing and getting underrepresented groups cycling, as they only want to focus on A1-A4 races. is that a fair summary?

morana · 25-02-2022 12:41pm

In my day we coopted Senan Turnbull and Vern Power to try give more experience in areas which we felt was lacking. Senan is a governance expert and indeed was part of a group which was formed to review the governance structures in CI around 2013. Vern's experience was in Accountancy and implemented a lot of controls and reforms in that area. The only female rep we had on the board we had was Orla HEndron who stepped down due to the rules in place. We tried to get more female representation but werent successful.

Its not the boards job to promote or organise races its the the different commissions.

That may not be the best structure but it is whats in place.

Anto

Seth Brundle · 25-02-2022 1:06pm

Its not the boards job to promote or organise races its the the different commissions

True but the board should be leading the policy areas. To use the earlier example, why are there not more women's races? How can they encourage more women to race? Is it because not enough women cycle? If so, then how do you get more women cycling here?

And it is here that I think CI doesn't represent its members. I know that they are trying but if I look at their Strategic Plan, there are a number of policy areas regarding women's participation but these seem to focus on coaching and treating cycling as a competitive sport rather than a form of recreation or a means of travel. And this comes back to a point made some months back about who CI represent - is it a sporting body or a body that represents people who use bikes for various reasons? Does/should it encourage more people to commute by bike for example (the word commute is not in their strategic plan)?

I think if joining a cycling club was not predicated on also joining CI then I think the CI membership numbers would be down to very low figures. I as a non-competing club member am forced to join a body that I feel does not really represent me or the majority of my club.

wpd · 25-02-2022 5:24pm

i do agree that cycling ireland should represent all cyclists more

similar to the way the AA will have a spokesperson to talk about motoring issues in the media I think

cycling ireland should have a spokesperson to represent cyclists point of view to issues being discussed

this might help with the "sure you don't pay road tax" crowd of nit wits

magicbastarder · 25-02-2022 5:44pm

i'm not so sure how easy it would be for cycling ireland to represent all cyclists - at heart (AFAIK - i'm not a member) it's a sporting organisation, and cycling as a sport is merely one facet of cycling. where would their responsibilities stop if they tried to represent all cyclists? they're not a lobbying organisation; i cycle quite a bit and have never done it as a sport, and i don't know what they could do for me in terms of me going out for a spin on country roads on my own.

it'd be quite different from other sporting organisations like the GAA - hurling is a sport, and it's much easier to draw lines around it as an activity.

Mercian Pro · 25-02-2022 9:39pm

Interestingly enough, the main objective of CI is "to encourage, develop and organise cycling ... including but not exclusively racing and leisure cycling." One of the six secondary objectives is "to provide facilities for cycling and to encourage the provision of facilities for cycling."

With the provision of facilities for cycling very much in mind, I wrote to them last July urging them to support Fingal Co Co's plans for the Royal Canal Urban Greenway. I felt the backing of a National Sports Body would carry more weight than a submission from an individual or a cycling club. Other than a standard acknowledgement, I heard nothing and when I discovered on Fingal's website that no submission had been received from CI. I attempted to find out why. Despite numerous referrals of my quries to "some people within here", I never managed to find out why my initial request was ignored or who, if anyone, in CI was responsible for cycling advocacy.

Like a lot of other non-racing club cyclists, I only renewed my CI membership because I had to in order to continue cycling with the club. I assume the main reason for clubs insisting on members joining CI is to protect the club officers and ride leaders from being sued in the event of an accident. Hopefully the current shake-up at Board level will encourage CI to live up to the expanded role set out in its own constitution.

Morris Garren · 25-02-2022 10:42pm

They are off up to an Oireachtas Hearing now- yet another episode. But it will be Hamlet without the Prince, neither of the last 2 Presidents or any Board member who has any idea what happened will be called to speak. Just the CEO and the freshly minted new Vice-President. And still no update regarding an EGM

saccades · 26-02-2022 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118689990#Comment_118689990

Yeah, but loads of broken links, including the one for child safeguarding statements that a lot of clubs point to on their websites. With no update even after repeatedly chasing up on it. You do wonder why you bother if that's their attitude.

I'm another that is in CI as it's a requirement to join the club and I wonder exactly what I'm getting for my cash.

NamelessPhil · 06-03-2022 7:31am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cycling-agency-rides-into-a-storm-as-legal-counsel-sues-ex-president-smg396cwp

CramCycle · 07-03-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739396#Comment_118739396

Nice to finally get some more details out about this, it looks even worse than expected and raises a load more issues about governance, the very thing that Dowling was brought in to help with. I hope Dowling cleans him out of it, that email was bang out of line, which I shamefully almost overlooked as just part of that brash personality but looking at some of the links and issues in the article, I have no pity for him. Imagine firing the guy whose sole job was to get things in line because they clearly weren't. I actually thought it was satire when I seen John Delaneys name in there. You really couldn't make it up. Jokingly, at this point I would not be surprised if Liam was taking management style tips from Delaney.

These are all separate issues as well, it is not like it is one controversy, it is multiple separate controversies.

Weepsie · 07-03-2022 10:07am

Any chance favours were being done given that EvoPros GM is a former cycling ireland president?

Large bottle small glass · 07-03-2022 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744141#Comment_118744141

Personally I think the ex President being "cleaned out" would be a bad thing.

I can't see that Times article but it would be better all-round if this could be sorted with a sincere apology and a public retraction. These people are all volunteers ( I think) and most organisations struggle as it is to get good people without something like this being potentially part of the package.

A registered letter in the door with your name as a Defendant is a pretty nasty kick in the balls. The man lost the run of himself in office but there is a better way out of this than him getting cleaned out.

magicbastarder · 07-03-2022 10:29am

is dowling suing collins personally; or suing cycling ireland as the remarks were made in discharge of his duties in that role?

CheGuedara · 07-03-2022 11:15am

Sticky Bottle article this morning re the Evo Pro fiasco which is suggested to be at the heart of the drama.

Did someone post a pic of John Delaney a little while back? You get a cookie 🍪 for predicting his involvement.

https://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/evopro-racing-responds-to-claims-about-its-cancelled-cycling-ireland-deal/

Beginning to doubt we'll get our EGM regarding all these matters even though a thorough explanation and discussion is warranted.

Haven't heard anything about the Netflix special either but damn if there isn't enough material for season one anyhow.

Chips Lovell · 07-03-2022 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744284#Comment_118744284

There may not be a difference. The Sunday Times article says that Cycling Ireland agreed to cover Collins' legal costs as part of the agreement for him to step down. It didn't elaborate on the details, whether it was cover all legal costs he may encounter or whether it was in relation to specific issues.

CramCycle · 07-03-2022 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744220#Comment_118744220

Probably a very off the cuff remark by me. I can see the article on my mobile but not on my desktop but here are the main points according to the Sunday Times:

Cycling Ireland is under a Garda investigation for a separate matter
Sports Ireland have reprimanded them for submitting false quotes
An agreement was signed with EvoPro racing that would cost CI €400,000 per year signed by Liam Collins and Matt McKerrow
EvoPro Sports is a dormant company
They do talk about Tyberry limited and debt but it isn't a thing as its just a company that shares an owner with EvoPro, more tabloid that it was included, felt unnecessary and trying to create a negative rather than factual narrative.
John Delaney attended a meeting with EvoPro and a big UK supplier, he was not paid for this.
Dowling (a governance expert, a reason I presume he was co opted) raised concerns about Collins being hands on in the deal, that CI was being asked to spend public money on cyclists that EvoPro had already contracted, no management of the conflict of interest as one of the team members is a boyfriend of his daughter.
CI have agreed to cover legal fees for Liam for his defence and he has since resigned, to the value of €12,000
CI pulled the plug on the EvoPro deal after these issues were flagged

I agree that a sincere and public apology should be issued to all 3 board members but the rest looks quite dodgy. Even if it was done with the best of intentions (as EvoPros commercial director has said), as soon as Dowling flagged the issues, the reaction should have been to come out and get the story out honestly and cleanly. Instead he effectively constructively dismissed 3 board members, and asked for several months to get it all sorted out without actually saying what was wrong.

Long story short, even if what he was doing was genuinely with the best of intentions, and it may have well been, his reaction to the governance issues is more than enough to raise concerns and an apology is not enough. I certainly wouldn't accept it. He tried to f*** over 3 innocent parties who were there to do a job. If he had kept quiet it would have been a more tolerable response. A bully is a bully, and I have little time for it.

Message from Cycling Ireland President

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