Is it time to join Nato

Not in the opinion of many, who seem to think that Ukraine was never going to be let join without a fight.

I, and I am sure many others would be disgusted that the carnage we are seeing could have been so easily avoided.

If you are right, shame on NATO

NATO is not a 'world power'. It is a defence alliance.

Again, 11 days into the invasion, you are still parroting Russia's and Putin's talking points and spreading its propaganda Mick Wallace style.

Pity.

Why would I have to mention Putin on a thread about NATO?

I have condemned Putin as it happens, he is wrong, totally wrong.

Call off the hounds mark.

You just admit artical 5 of Nato means we could get dragged into wars should we join Nato? Why did you rebut piont 2 in post #327 when you just acknowledge being in Nato means we are obliged to war with other countries that invade another Nato member.

We trade with china, we have relations with China albeit not huge. China could decided to sanction Nato members economically in a similar way the west is sanctioning Russia. We would not be effected in that hypothetical scenario. But joning NATO leaves us open to something similar.

Yes, you who can barely hold two thoughts together at the same time, where basic concepts have to be water down... and you really understand realpolitik.....?

Pull the other one. You wont fool ol' Marko

Artical 5 factually means we would have to enter a war we otherwise wouldn't have had to should we not be in Nato. There is more a chance of Russia invading the Baltic countries that are in Nato than it has of invading us not being in Nato. Even Biden said last week the Baltic countries are next for Putin. Realistically we have no chance chance of being invaded by a non Nato country but by being in Nato could mean we are dragged into wars we otherwise would not get into. It is a no brianer for us to stay out of Nato.

Why would China sanction Ireland when we are not in Nato, when the scenario I suggested was that they just wanted to sanction Nato countries. Chinas economy has quadrupled in size in the last 15 . In another 15 years it could be bigger than all the west economies put together and could boss nato countries with sanctions.

I'm not blocking anything. Just calling out people, like you, regurgitating Russian and Putin propaganda talking points. You seem to want to peddle these lies and not be called out on them. It doesn't work that way Francie.

Now that is fantasy stuff. If China were to sanction NATO members economically in a similar way the west is sanctioning Russia, the result would be a collapse of the Chinese economy.

Being able to funnel his money through the EU including Dublin? senior government ministers looking to exploit his standing at the UN? His propaganda TV station receiving funding , Irish business encouraged to do business with him? If you are lashing that kind of blame around there is plenty of it.

It was always clear that Ukraine would precipitate a reaction, hence NATO's wariness about actually allowing them join.

They were playing a geo political game and Ukraine tragically lost and it wasn't even in the game. Russia, Nato (i.e. The US) were playing.

1) If a Nato country is invaded then we are dragged into a war by artical 5 of Nato whether we like it or not.

Article 5 is the cornerstone of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and states that an attack on one member of NATO is an attack on all of its members

2) You are confusing what I said. I did not say China will sanction Ireland should we join. China has said it does not like the expansion of Nato. What happens in the hypothetical but still possible scenario china and Nato fallout and China puts sanctions on all Nato members. If we are not in Nato we will escape sanctions from what will be the biggest economy in the world. No I don't think china economy will be 60% of the world economy but it probably be bigger than all Nato members within 15 years. It population is bigger than all Nato countries at the moment

Quite silly to actually think joining Nato would be good for Ireland or even possible really.

We don't have an army, and we do not need one, what we do need is for our supposedly elected government officials to stop opening their mouths to the world and trying to throw us in the same conversations as Nato when it comes to Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Anyone with a brain knows Russia is in the wrong, but knowing, and openly sprouting it from the rooftops are two different things, we have no reason nor do we have any resources to offer the world in this battle. Nato and Russia are the 2 major reasons behind the conflict, so they should both be the ones who deal with it. A country of 5 million a half a world away from it is not going to have any say or decisive voice in the issue.

If you honestly think anyone would even bother to invade Ireland in modern times, you haven't a clue, we are too far from any viable threat and we are inbetween both the US and UK, meaning no country apart from them could ever hope to even hold on to us if they did mange to somehow sneak an invasion force in.

I wish the Ukrainians nothing but the best, and I hope NATO actually do something more than send prayers and kisses to them as its completely down to both NATO and Russia that Ukraine are in this mess

The 'victim' is in the middle here, like so many before them sadly, as the US and Russia play geo-political games. Putin without doubt deserves the lions share of the blame.

NATO/US also deserves blame. If ending neutrality or joining NATO is the be all and end all regarding security, explain why Ukraine are not in NATO, they have asked often enough and are now pleading to be in it.

As I said, if China or the CCP puts sanctions on all NATO members, then it's signing its own death warrant economically.

If you are worried about China sanctioning Ireland then you really need to check out what is happening in the world. The EU has recently launched a number of WTO disputes regarding Chinese business practices - this includes a blockade of trade the China is currently taking with another EU member (Lithuania) sanction in other words. EU responses will be EU wide (including Ireland). This could result in a trade war with the EU. Like it or not Ireland as a member of the EU will be involved. Exactly the same rules apply as for NATO.