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Energy infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Ah thats great - so I can expect a big reduction in my energy bills for that month so??



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,710 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Doubling down on failed energy policies is not going to get us out of this crisis - at least in the UK they are starting to recognise these realities and are opening up new areas for oil/gas exploration. BOJO emphasised this point yesterday during his meeting with the Dutch and Canadian PM yesterday too. There is also the issue of the biofuel and biogas scam that is displacing food crops at a time of potential grain shortages

    PS: As for projects going straight to ABP - they would want to educate themselves about relevant EU legislation in this area before rubber stamping any more of these white elephants

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0303/1284247-derrybrien-windfarm/#:~:text=The%20T%C3%A1naiste%20has%20said%20a,farm%2C%20almost%2020%20years%20ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Folks, if we get a good spell of weather with no wind and Russia turns off the gas supply that they provide to Europe, how exposed are we to blackouts? I realise prices will go up regardless but I just wonder how exposed to blackouts we would be if the wind stops for an extended period of time while russias gas is turned off?

    Think Russia provides 40 odd percent of gas to Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭gjim


    Solar PV and batteries are dominating new generation in the US - https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51518 - with batteries representing 13% of new capacity and solar PV an amazing 45% for 2022. Contrast this 27GW of battery/solar capacity added in one year with nuclear's continuing decline with 7GW of capacity (12 reactors) planned for retirement by 2025.

    The battery story is remarkable - up from almost 0% in 2019 to double digits. This reflects the phase shift in the economics of providing peaker capacity. What was dismissed as theoretical - the LCOE advantage of grid batteries over natural gas open cycle - is now being reflected in the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭specialbyte


    In the short term (days - weeks) not very likely. While Europe gets 40% of it's gas from Russia, the percentage for Ireland is estimated at less than 3%. Our gas comes from Corrib off the Mayo Coast and via Scotland from the North Sea. We have some limited gas storage.

    In the medium term (weeks - months) it is a potential. We use a lot of gas for generating electricity and heating homes. It is not inconceivable that we run out of the little amount of stored gas we have and that the North Sea gas we are using is sold to the mainland Europe market than us as they are willing to pay more for it than we are.

    There's no version of the EU banning Russian fossil fuel imports / Russia turns off the pipes where reducing energy usage isn't going to be required. There's two options:

    • There's the hard political decision of a a managed reduction of fossil fuel usage
    • Or we make no hard political decisions and there's an uncontrolled reduction of gas usage, i.e. we run out of gas at tolerable prices and it causes blackouts

    It is worth pointing out that Germany and other mainland EU countries have considered this. Trading information suggests that purchases of gas from Russia to countries like Germany are above normal. It is likely that German power companies are buying as much as possible right now and storing it to reduce price shocks in future.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ireland? Zero chance of blackout. Only about 2 to 3% of our Gas is Russian (via UK).

    Germany? Unlikely, last year only 12% of their electricity was generated by Gas. Likely they could offset it by just running coal plants more + extending their remaining Nuclear plants.

    Some other smaller European countries are more exposed, the further East you go the more reliant on gas they are.

    However keep in mind, it is mostly for home heating, rather then electricity generation in Eastern Europe. I know it doesn't feel like it today, but winter is coming to end soon and as spring approaches, gas demand normally goes WAY down. In a few weeks time you could completely turn off the tap from Russia and we could likely supply all our gas needs from non Russian sources given the seasonal decrease in demand.

    The problem is more next winter. Europe needs to move fast over the summer to reduce it's dependency on Russian gas before next winter. Fill up gas storage during the summer, etc.

    As you mention Europe currently gets 40% of it's gas from Russia. Analysts seem fairly confident they can get non Russian sourced gas up to 80%, but that leaves a 20% gap that needs to be filled by other means.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I will refer you to the post by specialbyte.

    Your telling me there is zero percentage chance of a blackout if we get a spell of weather with little to no wind generation (just like in 2021) that lasts a number of weeks?

    At the same time as Germany and the rest of Europe stockpiling gas reserves?

    What happens if mainland Europe offer to pay more for gas than we do, so that mainland Europe can meet the shortfall from Russian gas?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Your telling me there is zero percentage chance of a blackout if we get a spell of weather with little to no wind generation (just like in 2021) that lasts a number of weeks?"

    Yes, we will be able to handle it fine.

    We get a significant amount of our gas from Corrib, which can't go anywhere else. And there is only so much pipeline capacity for North sea gas to go to mainland Europe. Plus the UK has to ensure enough supply to Ireland to also supply Northern Ireland.

    Keep in mind, we use relatively small amount of gas just 6bcm and we are a pretty rich country now, we can certainly outbid most Eastern European countries.

    If the worst happen our plants are capable of running on liquid fuels and of course Moneypoint will be used more then we might like.

    Of course we should certainly take steps to shore up the security of supply. More gas storage is a good idea and perhaps developing the other gas reserves off our coast and of course moving away from gas even faster then was originally planned.

    Post edited by bk on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Major announcement by the EU regarding energy today, specifically Russian gas and the phasing out of the dependence on fossil fuels from Russia done well before 2030. They are basically piling everything they can into removing 60% of Russian gas from the EU this year.....this year (wtf)

    Some key points

    • gas storage in the EU has to be filled up to at least 90% by Oct this year
    • Diversifying gas supplies, via higher Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) and pipeline imports from non-Russian suppliers
    • Larger volumes of biomethane and renewable hydrogen production and imports
    • Reducing faster the use of fossil fuels in our homes, buildings, industry, and power system, by boosting energy efficiency, increasing renewables and electrification, and addressing infrastructure bottlenecks.

    Full implementation of the Commission's ‘Fit for 55' proposals would already reduce our annual fossil gas consumption by 30%, equivalent to 100 billion cubic metres (bcm), by 2030. With the measures in the REPowerEU plan, we could gradually remove at least 155 bcm of fossil gas use, which is equivalent to the volume imported from Russia in 2021. Nearly two thirds of that reduction can be achieved within a year, ending the EU's overdependence on a single supplier.




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I hope this leads to a more streamlined approach to the planning process for offshore wind and reduces the delivery time of projects from conception to delivery in Ireland.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Literally the only way that will happen here is if they put the systems and regulations in place (they're working on that) and staff all the relevant bodies appropriately.

    It's the second one that Ireland has the biggest problem with, always has.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I know I’m probably going a bit off topic but how many people do we need working in ABP compared to how many are working there now, considering all the major PT projects that will be getting lodged soon plus housing, grid infrastructure etc etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No idea on an exact number but doubling the current amount would go a long way to speeding everything up

    Note its not just ABP. Planning depts, numerous govt depts, the courts, EPA etc etc etc. All need to be scaled up massively.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Case in point:

    A decision on planning permission on the application to build a €650 million liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal beside the Shannon estuary has been put back until September 9th.

    An Bord Pleanála, which was due to issue its decision on Monday, has confirmed that due to the complexity of the project, it was being deferred. It is considering a revised application submitted last August under strategic infrastructure legislation.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/bord-defers-decision-on-planning-permission-for-650m-shannon-lng-plant-1.4820778



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    It’s so frustrating to see the likes of this and I can’t see it changing anytime soon.

    The Green Party have a vested interest in the LNG plant not being built as they are against fossil fuel use and the potential for imports of fracked gas.

    Sinn Fein object to everything.

    labour are obsolete.

    FF/FG probably won’t want to make it an issue unless someone else makes it an issue.

    What a cluster fcuk!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    To be honest, an LNG terminal really isn't that important. We can already import LNG indirectly via the terminals in the UK.

    If you are concerned about security of supply, then in the short term gas storage facilities are much more important and in the long term developing our own gas fields. Of course ideally we should be getting off gas ASAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    It's part of the public service, there'll be more than enough people there, planning is notoriously slow anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Ah it’s not just the LNG terminal, it’s all infrastructure projects really wether it be energy infrastructure or pt infrastructure.

    Just seems to be no urgency at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    They keep awarding contracts to companies who don't deliver, every BAM project is behind schedule and overbudget yet they are still being awarded contracts, other countries have penalties when contracts aren't finished on time ,here we just give them more time and money



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    every BAM project is behind schedule and overbudget

    Name 5



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    To be fair I don’t blame the contractor one bit, they are a private company who have to maximise earnings.

    It’s the project management team and the PSDP/client designers who should shoulder a lot of the blame. (I’m specifically thinking of the childrens hospital)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Basically ,all the eu rules have changed overnight - an lpg plant here is only of any use if we can then export it via a gas pipeline ... And while the greens are pushing renewables ,they also know we need gas to back up and decarbonize our grid -

    We have feic all gas storage ... So are depending on uk storage - and they have feic all as well - ( I think most of the big gas generators need to be able to run on diesel for at least 10 days /)

    Bio-fuels / bio-methane is sunk - it's using lots of energy and crops to produce energy at the expense of food ... And if you think there's a fuel shortage ,there's gonna be a food shortage in other parts of the world ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Further details on the recently announced EU plans to wean itself off Russian gas asap




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Looks like the end is nigh for the long running Derrybrien wind farm saga




  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    How big a loss is 60MW in the overall scheme of things? It's the 7th largest windfarm in Ireland.

    For all the talk of large scale future offshore wind, the rate of rollout of new wind generation in Ireland seems to have slowed in recent years and the short term pipeline is looking empty. Not sure if wikipedia is the best source.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_farms_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    60MW is a hit but not a big one.

    As for why the slow down, simply put, most of the best spots are gone.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "For all the talk of large scale future offshore wind, the rate of rollout of new wind generation in Ireland seems to have slowed in recent years and the short term pipeline is looking empty."

    The RESS 2 onshore auction is currently under way, results to be announced by this summer, which will result in up to 3,500GWh to be built by 2024.

    This will be followed by offshore RESS 1 & RESS 3 auction.

    The pipeline looks empty as we had come to the end of the onshore RESS 1 projects. Massive pipeline of 30+ projects competing for the offshore RESS 1, RESS2 & 3 auctions.

    Here is what the schedule looks like:

    • Auction Type Indicative Auction - Volume (GWh) - Indicative Auction Dates - Indicative Auction Commercial Operation Dates
    • Onshore RESS 2 - 1,000-3,500 - Q2 2022 - 2024
    • Offshore RESS 1 - 7,500-10,000 - Q4 2022 - 2027
    • Onshore RESS 3 - 2,000-5,500 - Q2 2023 - 2025
    • Offshore RESS 2 - 15,000-25,000 - 2024/2025 - 2029
    • Onshore RESS 4 - 1,000-5,000 - 2024 - 2026




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  • Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭getoutadodge


    Since 2018 when this GRAZE biogas plant was supposedly signed off..nothing, nada... has happened.

    Same nonsense with the Silvermines hydro plant to be similar to Turlough Hill.

    Why the delay? EIB politics? Or just incompetence with the Irish Govt system. Why did the Norwegians pull out of the Moneypoint plant/ Shannon scheme. Probably got frustrated with what they saw as inaction etc


    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/gas-for-grass-8m-for-mitchelstown-biogas-project-422698



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