Newly built social homes sitting idle for over 8 months in Wexford

V true

I thought the Traveller capital was a town in westmeath 😁

I only mentioned westmeath as I work in the town and its like the wild west 😏

How often has a dog warden scanned your dog?

why didnt they build enough houses in the first place?

I don't think you know how maths/percentages work when demonstrating one section of the community has a far bigger issue with crime than another section.

I'd agree that I'd b e more worried about the number of criminals 'on the outside' but that's just distracting from the point.

And the point is that traveller women are vastly over-represented in the prison population. If they weren't committing crimes and getting caught, they wouldn't be in prison. Traveller women equal approximately 0.3% of the population (assuming a 50/50 split between male and female). The point I'm making is that it's absolutely scandalous that 0.3% of the population make up almost 25% of the prison population for females. That shows me that there is a problem with criminality in the traveller community.

They’re not facts though because there simply isn’t enough information or context being provided in the way the statistics you’re using to make your point are being misrepresented. It’s the way you’re choosing to interpret and present the statistics is the issue, nothing to do with mathematics or statistics themselves, everything to do with misrepresentation based upon your own interpretation.

If it was a thing where the figures were static, and you could refer to the same people, then you might have something, but even then ‘criminality’ is such a broad term that there’s no specificity to it, and you haven’t provided any.

By way of example, off the top of my head I know that most of the women in prison are there for offences on the lower end of the scale - shoplifting, drug possession, that sort of thing, so they might do a couple of months, whereas take someone who’s importing garlic and putting it down as apples to avoid paying the difference in taxes, y’know, that’s quite something else -

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garlic-man-begley-released-early-from-prison-29156388.html

It’s kinda like when @teachinggal123 talked about the way travellers used to be and they weren’t like that any more, and how criminality and child abuse is associated with traveller culture, immediately I was reminded of this particular case where the man in question sexually abused his daughters for over 20 years and was able to get away with it, didn’t do a day in prison until he was found guilty -

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/calls-for-review-of-state-response-to-traveller-rape-case-1.4280935

So what use are prison statistics in that case and what do they actually say about criminality whether it’s being perpetrated by travellers or any other group in Irish society? Says fcukall really, other than what the person putting it forward as an argument to perpetuate discrimination against travellers wants it to say. How, for example, do you address this question -

In a statement the women asked if the abuse would have been allowed to continue for so long if the women came from a settled family. 

“They were vulnerable Traveller children forced to live on the edges of Irish society, already looked down on, discriminated against and denied their basic human rights. Does this denial of their rights also extend to their right to protection as children? 

“How could schools, social workers, medical professionals and others who have a so-called duty of care turn their back time after time as the evidence was hitting them in the face,” the statement said.

Do you reckon they might have a point?

Do you reckon when anyone points out that travellers are over-represented among the patient population in the Central Mental Hospital, that they might have a point too? Or that traveller men are seven times more likely to take their own lives than among the general population? The outcomes in terms of healthcare for travellers generally, not as a consequence of their lifestyles, but as a consequence of the discrimination they experience fuelled by prejudice, make for grim reading -

https://www.thejournal.ie/tough-start-pt-2-traveller-children-health-5568495-Oct2021/

But it’s more important to some people that they can thumb their noses at travellers and argue that they should be discriminated against because criminality is an aspect of their culture, and you’ve got the statistics to prove it.

For all the good that does 😒

@bubblypop you are doing some amount of mental gymnastics there! You obviously don't know how any of this works, and that Vietnam example is absolutely ridiculous.

Not going very well for you, is it?

Yes, criminality is a broad term but usually people aren't put in prison in Ireland unless they have broken the law, committed crimes, i.e. are criminals who engage in criminal activity - criminality. I'm not saying all travellers by the way. But they are very over-represented, and that leads me to believe there's a problem in the wider traveller community.

That's a bit of whataboutery (Garlic Man) but whatever end of the scale the crime is, whether it's shoplifting or tax evasion, it's still crime and shouldn't be excused.

I don't understand your point above. A traveller man sexually abused his children and got away with it for years? What's the point here?

All that shows above is that a traveller perpetrated crimes against other travellers. Nothing more, nothing less.

In a statement the women asked if the abuse would have been allowed to continue for so long if the women came from a settled family. 

I couldn't read all of the article you posted (I don't have an Irish Times account) and I do have sympathy for the abused women so apologies if there's anything in that article that contradicts my next point...........but sex crimes like that typically take years to be dealt with. I suspect (not having read the article although I've read another article on Mr. O'Reilly) that it would have made no difference if the victims were travellers or settled people. There is a mountain of historical sex abuse cases related to settled people still going through the courts. And I'm going to be blunt here.........travellers have an awful habit of blaming the State for all their woes and taking no responsibility for their own actions so I'm not surprised to see travellers blaming the state for a crime perpetrated by one of their own. Again, I haven't read the article so I don't know if there was inaction by the state in the case you mentioned.

Travellers seem to prefer living on the edges of Irish society as far as I can see. Loads of benefits and none of the responsibilities. I feel sorry for traveller children living in sh1te conditions etc. but you have to put most of the blame on their parents. If traveller children are living in poor conditions such as those in Wexford, why don't their parents move into the houses? It's a very valid question. As far as I can see, it suits them not to move in until they get what they want. Travellers are doing nothing to help their cause. They discourage education, a sure way out of the mess that they are in.

I'm not a medical expert but I can't see how their lifestyle doesn't play a part in their poor mental health or their suicide statistics.

Well, my answer to that is what are travellers doing to address the situation? Everything seems to be on the settled community to bed over backwards and accept traveller culture when so many aspects of their culture is illegal or antisocial. Travellers need to tow the line too.

Yes, based on your experiences of three weeks, it would be unfair to think Vietnamese people are criminals.

But I've the guts of 50 years of experience with travellers. My view isn't based on a snapshot, it's based on continually seeing them act the boll1x for the best part of 50 years.

Are they troublesome? Read my post again. I presume you are referring to metres not miles!