Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

johnnyskeleton · 09-03-2022 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756063#Comment_118756063

Well, the other side of the coin is this - Russia has been modernising and training but there is no way to prepare for war other than war itself.

Russia will have learned its lessons from Ukraine if/when they invade a NATO nation.

There are lessons for NATO too about Russian tactics, the essential nature of the javelin missile and air dominance

handlemaster · 09-03-2022 8:38pm

Would it not be best just to pound this Russian army to the ground now while the whole world except for the like of india and china agreeing this is appalling action by Russia. What is Europe going to do live hiding in fear of what Putin wants to do over the next 20 years.

Gatling · 09-03-2022 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759069#Comment_118759069

Russia hasn't changed it's tactics or doctrine since the 1950's there not going to change now , hence why the prefer a Syria or Chechnya where they can bomb cities back to the Stoneage unopposed,

There is no way in hell they will go for a Nato country,they would face anilation

SafeSurfer · 09-03-2022 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758927#Comment_118758927

Why do you think Putin wants to bring back all former Soviet Union states back under Russian occupation?

I don’t think this is credible analysis from any expert on Russia.

ilkhanid · 09-03-2022 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758422#Comment_118758422

The 2014 rebellion was not a coup. It was as legitimate a rebellion as 1830, 1848 and 1789. There have been elections held since in Ukraine which have confirmed the pro-western trend of the populace. Any inquiry of Ukranians resident in Ireland would confirm this.

odyssey06 · 09-03-2022 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759039#Comment_118759039

You dont deal in facts. You havent contributed one single positive fact.

You have multiple times run away from the questions asked of you about Russian paratroops because it doesnt fit the propaganda narrative you have attempting to spread on this thread. One you provided no facts to support. Yet when challenged suddenly you demand a standard of evidence you made no attempt to reach in your own post. That is not engaging in good faith.

Your facts are negative... we dont know X. That is not a fact.

You deal in anti information, lies, deliberate diversions, semantic weasel words. You will never acknowledge the war crimes Russia commits. Even know you are attempting to squirm out of it talking about 'mass deaths' when we are talking about Russia bombing a childrens hospital. You are already coming up with your next lie and smokescreen.

breezy1985 · 09-03-2022 8:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759075#Comment_118759075

This has been answered a million times on this thread now. Hammering the Russian army to the ground could lead to a desperate Russia sending nukes

Gatling · 09-03-2022 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759100#Comment_118759100

He's only been saying it for Last 10+ years.

This was never about nato or negotiations this is the physical Rape of the population of Ukraine , bombing a maternity hospital has what to do with Nato ,the answer as we all know absolutely nothing just like we all know it's nothing to do with neo Nazis

,it's nothing but pure evil

liamtech · 09-03-2022 8:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759075#Comment_118759075

If the Russians do what they seem intent on doing - and go for Kyiv (replay the battle of stalingrad live on Twitter) - we have entered a New Cold War at that point. (imho)

In so far as western intervention - i would sanction ANY ACTION against Russia - short of actually engaging in a war with them - im sorry. I know how that sounds. Im going to place a link - its from a reviewer/writer who researched MAD/Deterrence for a book - he felt moved to put a video up discussing the scenarios - I hope the mods are ok with it. I have been talking deterrence/escalation here and elsewhere, and its hard to talk about. Emotions running high - anyway - have a look, see what u think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lnb1J64qlc

@handlemaster - just directly to you. I want to say i agree morally with you - Please dont think of me as an appeaser or what not. Happy to debate of course but there are no hard feelings 100% i hope

I am genuinely APPALLED by what is happening. I just want it to end. Its insane.

tooka · 09-03-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759113#Comment_118759113

Facts are neither positive nor negative, they are simply facts

the Russians bombed a school and a children’s hospital may be facts, the fact that they were also empty when hit and as a result were simply buildings is also a major part of the story and if true are the most important fact

let’s wait and see what happens but let’s be serious grown ups and differentiate fact from fiction

SafeSurfer · 09-03-2022 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759112#Comment_118759112

Could you remind me of the difference between a coup an a legitimate rebellion again?

Using armed force to overthrow a democratically elected government is a “legitimate rebellion”?

Please go to the Trump thread. Some idiots there are calling what happened in Washington on January 6th an attempted coup! Imagine that!

ilkhanid · 09-03-2022 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118758996#Comment_118758996

I'm not sure to whom you are referring when you claim that ''the western allies'' (rather strange,broad and woolly category) don't really talk about Russia's (in reality-the USSR) contribution, so all I can go on is the standard historical works that are available to me and which I have consulted, or read. I can assure you that is not the case. There are no shortage of works about the Russo-German war including-to name just a few-those by Abert Seaton, Alan Clark, Max Hastings, Anthony Beevor and Sean McMeekmin and they certainly give the Soviets their due.

tooka · 09-03-2022 9:00pm

Ukraine must fight on its own but to stop Russia expansion why not move nukes and nato troops to the Baltics, Poland, Finland and Moldova and Georgia and warn Russia any further move west will see equal retaliation

to do this it would mean we would need leaders of the EU countries who were prepared to to push the button

are the citizens of Western Europe prepared to lay down their lives to live as free people

liamtech · 09-03-2022 9:02pm

Special Question Time on BBC one - Decent line up - Entirely on the Ukrainian War - The Ukrainian Ambassador may try and get to the program too -

Its Live on BBC 1 atm

Danzy · 09-03-2022 9:04pm

Ukraine not exporting grain or food this year, understandably so but by God it's going to drive the price of food high.

People have absolutely no idea how big the food crisis is going to be globally in the next 2 years.

The Government here are talking about expanding grain. Every one in Agriculture here is wondering how we'll maintain output close to anything we have now. Nevermind increasing output to meet some of the immense global short fall.

pixelburp · 09-03-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759195#Comment_118759195

Is that then Putin's real goal then? Russia already squeezes Europe for gas, with Ukraine's bread basket under russian control he could dictate whether Europe starves or freezes?

breezy1985 · 09-03-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759175#Comment_118759175

Your dead right all those eminent historians do credit USSR (not Russia my bad) I was more thinking of the prevailing myth in each country among the population most of whom read none of those authors.

09-03-2022 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759049#Comment_118759049

Cool, so we're in agreement.

Furze99 · 09-03-2022 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756669#Comment_118756669

I didn't say NATO are rolling over Russia and battering down the gates of the Kremlin - that's a ridiculous extension.

Putin & his administration would have to be absolutely off their rockers to launch a nuclear attack. The whole idea of nuclear weapons is not to use them, to have them in the background as an existential threat. But Putin voicing that threat has shot his bolt - you can do this once and it's received with shock & awe. But not multiple times.

odyssey06 · 09-03-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759152#Comment_118759152

I am reminded of the fact free fictional account you posted that this was the Russian plan all along. And when challenged were utterly unable to defend the fiction and now demand facts from everyone except yourself. Since then your posts have been negative exercises in anti information. They are negative facts in that sense

Where is your verification of this fact that they were empty? To the standard you have demanded.

Fact

The World Health Organization has so far verified at least 18 different attacks on health facilities since the Russian invasion of Ukraine began.

I predict there will be no circumstances in which you accept and condemn Russian war crimes. You will always find an excuse to hide behind.

beggars_bush · 09-03-2022 9:25pm

Wheat needs to be sown in the next 3-5 weeks.

If i were in government I'd be looking at a line from Louth to Limerick and getting every farmer south of this to grow wheat, oats, barley where possible. Start ploughing fields now.

Sell all beef stock and free up land.

Desperate times call for desperate measures

tooka · 09-03-2022 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759305#Comment_118759305

And how about the wind farms and solar panel farms

where will they go ?

Gary kk · 09-03-2022 9:29pm

Won't be a tractor in a field for two weeks a best with the rain at the moment.

tooka · 09-03-2022 9:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759283#Comment_118759283

Where did I say I knew russias plan

i actually said nobody knows russias plan , so to judge it a success or a failure makes no sense

as for the rest of the post , I am a facts man

russia were wrong to invade Ukraine , that is a fact

now as this war proceeds lets stick to the facts

Manach · 09-03-2022 9:41pm

For those interested in nuclear strategy might I recommend the works of Lawrence Freedman. Summarising from a course in Cold War military strategy:

In that nuclear war (according to NATO / and former Soviet doctrine) did not have to be an all out MAD (mutually assured desdruction) but instead can occur in a limited fashion against operational targets such as airbases and bridges. The scenarios envisaged were when an enemy force was overwhelming their side. While this in itself might lead to a fuller exchange of higher yield warhards against civil population centres, it was reckoned the risk worth-while to prevent losing.

Personally I found the last part rather irrational to take such a chance - however this whole Ukrainian invasion is irrational.

liamtech · 09-03-2022 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759356#Comment_118759356

you do realize that every time you are presented with a fact (as @odyssey06 just did) - you invariably fail to address it? Why cant you answer the question on the WHO verifying that War Crimes are being committed?

Is this the action of a 'Facts man'?

Do you think you sound credible? AT ALL? I presented numerous FACTS to you. Ignored.

I also offered you questions and hypothetical examples - Ignored

beggars_bush · 09-03-2022 9:45pm

Solar panel every large farm shed in the country. Most of them face SW or S anyway.

Same with bogs. Solar panels not wind is the way to go

IdHidden · 09-03-2022 9:48pm

It is amazing the support the Fascist Putin gets from people who claim to be left wing.

Akrasia · 09-03-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759152#Comment_118759152

And you know this 'fact' how?

Do you think pregnant women stop giving birth just because there's a war?

Danzy · 09-03-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759305#Comment_118759305

Meanwhile in the real world..

No disrespect but there is absolutely no urgency or interest in this at Govt level, no interest at EU level, no interest in society.

Potatoes need to be set now, farmers can't get green diesel in quantity to do even that. That's across all sectors.

Where will the seed grain come from Germany has been hoovering up that for weeks, where will the contractors come from to set it, the Govt would want to be paying the bill, most others can't.

Getting ground ready for grains is intensive and where will the p and k be sourced, it would need to already be sprayed and ploughed.

The Minister will be presenting at the end of the month. No urgency, no interest in planting dates.

25 years of running agriculture down in to the ground won't be turned in a few weeks.

Nearly every one in Agriculture will be producing significantly less this year. No choice.

Pity, because the global food crisis next year will turn the world upside down, look at the little blip that caused the Arab Spring.

Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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