Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Noted that you refused to engage with any of the questions asked. We can draw our own conclusions about those evasions.

You wont even acknowledge that Russia has a case to answer for war crimes or explain how such a trial can be held.

The WHO has confirmed 18 medical facilities have been hit... response hear no evil see no evil.

All you offer are crocodile tears and wringing of hands.

The masquerade you have played out is well and truly blown. Try coming up with your excuses and deflections for all 18 and still maintain your pretence of not being pro Russian.

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/maternity-hospital-among-18-ukraine-medical-centers-hit-says-who-122031000470_1.html

Well apparently Putin was furious 8 cruise missiles were used to destroy a minor airfield in Vinnytsia.

They only had 200 and will find them slow / hard to replace.

Possibly drones and other equipment being held back given Ukraine are not on same level militarily.

First there was 'Rocket Man' and now there is 'Bunker Boy'.

With the best will in the world... a home draw for Ukraine is a win as in fight Russia to a standstill as sanctions bite and Putin looks for an off ramp. I hope for that but am not confident.

Going on the offensive is a whole other ballgame and Ukraine simply arent there versus Russia. They have been supplied with defensive weapons. Very limited air power and navy wiped out.

Crimea and the eastern regions are the infected arm that may need to be amputated to save the rest and also give Putin a way to save face.

Putin's not capable of backing down. Ig e was, he's have already negotiated for Donbas and Crimea in exchange for lifting of sanctions and a withdrawl.

Of course, the other problem is, no one would trust him. He'd be back in a few years.

He doesn't care about the sanctions as long as they don't effect him personally. In any case, they will have much more of a mid-long term effect than a short term one.

This war from Russia on Ukraine is so mindless.

My idea of attainable terms with the most potential for long term peace:

Ukraine officially cedes Crimea to Russia and recognises the independence of the two breakaway puppets in the East. A post-war Westward looking Ukraine would be more stable and secure without these regions. It also lets the Russians claim victory; unpalatable but crucial if they are to stop.

The remainder of the Ukraine falls under a universally recognised NATO guarantee. As part of the terms of this guarantee, Ukraine commits to never joining NATO and NATO commits to never deploying their forces on Ukrainian soil in any event but an outside invasion.

Without a cast iron NATO guarantee, the possibility of a second invasion will always loom.

The Zelensky government remains in place and the Ukrainian armed forces remain intact.

This peace, in my view, allows Russia to claim a successful campaign and Ukraine to claim a successful defence. It creates a buffer between Russia and NATO, lessening the chance of a disastrous confrontation between the two. Ukraine rids itself of troublesome Russian populations and can concentrate on its westernisation without the scourge of insurgency and the threat of invasion.

I fear the Russians will want more though, especially more of the Black Sea coast: Odessa and Mariupol. They may insist on the removal of the Zelensky regime and demilitarisation.

The bloodier the nose the Ukrainians give them, the more of their country they can preserve at the table.

Yes and trials often find that no crime has occurred. The poster, someone who is not an expert or even an eyewitness, is demanding that another poster who is also not an expert or eyewitness identity an incident as a war crime and the party guilty for that war crime.

Its egotistical hubris.

If it is a war crime I wish to see those responsible brought to justice. It’s not up to me to work out how to bring those responsible to justice. The International Criminal Court has a staff of 900 and a budget of €150 a year.

Maybe they are best place to determine if a crime has occurred, who is responsible for that crime and subsequently punish them.

You've gotten Serbia and Republika Srpska mixed up.

I would broadly agree with this. And the NATO guarantee would be the crucial part. In order to provide some OFF-RAMP -, it could be

• Ukraine constitutionally neutral
• NATO -and- Russia both guarantee that it is not to be in either camp
• If either camp violate this agreement, the other is no longer obliged to adhere to agreement
• This treaty is PURELY in consideration of military pacts/alliances
• it IN NO WAY precludes Ukraine from joining the EU
• In the event of an EU Based military alliance, Ukraine is formally absolved from any necessity to join or take part

I genuinely think this would work - but welcome debate

All of this assumes Russian credibility though

Russian credibility is now pegged to the Ruble - Its worthless, yet continues to devalue hourly

The problem is Putin already had that ,this is what is causing confusing people he already has Crimea and the separatists areas ,so why go all out or take the whole country and put Viktor Yanukovych back in power ,40 million Ukrainians don't want anything to do with either putin or Yanukovych,

So what's the actual end game being sanctions are tanking what little of the economy that wasn't already in the gutter, even in the separatists areas there isn't a clear majority either according to reports .

To me it's a case of a leader gone Rogue

They are one and the same in reality, clearly shown during the Bosnian war and not surprising considering Serbia's actions in Kosovo a few years later too.

Alot of parallels to what Russia has been up to under Putin.

Reminds me of a certain thread that was recently posted about the death of an ISIS leader with a distinct twist of America did this and America did that ,was it a war crime , didn't play out so well

Any hospital being bombed is a war crime ,but when it comes to Russia they are in a whole league of their own when it comes to bombing hospitals , schools , creches , civilian airliners ,and whole cities.

No buts about it .