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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The price of electricity now, is a short term economic problem that can be solved in many ways that don't involve increasing greenhouse emissions which in turn will cause long term irreversible environmental damage

    Cutting our electricity prices today, by burning dirtier, cheaper fossil fuels, will impose a far greater cost on future generations, than if the government just decided to sell government bonds to fund helicopter payments to subsidise low income households while we accelerate the construction of the infrastructure needed to generate carbon neutral power (interconnectors to Europe and offshore wind installations)

    In case you haven't seen it, the IPCC AR6 WG2 report was released recently and it said we have a rapidly closing window in which to act to allow us to ensure a habitable planet for all of humanity.

    Every year we delay, or every backwards step we take, is dooming more of the planet to becoming uninhabitable to future generations.

    I think that is more of a concern than the cost of your esb bill, or the cost of a small increase to the national debt to smooth our transition to carbon neutrality



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,901 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Well said.

    I have said this since we signed up to Paris agreement, Ireland should be front and centre of the move towards renewables. Instead we are dragging our heels. We have plenty of options plus we have plenty of companies who can provide the skills if required

    We should be using this crisis to invest in sustainable power, not going backwards. We should be going to Europe now, getting money and investing, the ability to generate our own electricity and reduce CO2 will only benefit everyone moving forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Corcaigh84


    I always get a chuckle from these type who seem to assume that cyclists are a unique group and are not in fact a large overlapping portion of the transport Venn diagram that contains car owners.

    What is the real reason they get so upset? Is it because it reminds them that they are unfit? A childish opinion that an alternative mode of transport is 'uncool'? If you vocalized these opinions out loud in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy you'd be looked at as a moron.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    TD are named on this everyday and people make up stories and call them all sorts. Not sure why you think you can't name someone.

    Why would I counter with anything? we are Ireland we should do our own plans and not just follow the sheep. If we have power blackout, we have power blackouts. As long as hospitals etc have power that is all that matters. Not sure what Texas has to do with Ireland?


    In terms of trees, we should have natural trees and it should be increased, if people want separate "commercially viable" that should be in conjunction, not a replacement.

    Why? google. It's a terrible project and fair play to any government minister who rejects it.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,431 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    I'll be 40 this year. I've heard all the scare stories. Acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer, the rising sea levels. We survived previous to the last ice age when the temperature was as high as they are predicting it to go, and we'll survive it again. I'm exactly 0% worried about "global warming" or "climate change" or whatever propaganda slogan they are using this week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel



    Not sure why anyone with all the information available would class this as "propaganda"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Acid rain, the hole in the ozone layer, the rising sea levels.

    All of these are verifiable by yourself, just need the appropriate tools and skills.

    Similar to flat earth conspiracy theories these things are easily proven / disproven with the application of science.

    They only gain traction among those who equate their personal lack of knowledge to a conspiracy



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The seriousness of it is propaganda to tax more and more. The temperature will rise by 1.5 degrees. Wow! How will we ever survive. That would be a tropical 10.5 degrees today in Dublin. Someone run get Greta.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Because the science is unequivocal that climate change is real, that humans are causing it, and that it poses an increasingly severe threat that gets worse the longer we fail to take it seriously and fundamentally change how we generate and use energy

    The real question is why do 'righty' parties ignore the warnings that are so obvious that they have to deliberately bury their heads in the sand to not see them




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You literally just proved my point with your post 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Is this an application post to join the staff at Fox News or GB News?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    All of the scare stories that you heard about are true and we managed to tackle Acid rain and we banned CFCs which has prevented the hole in the ozone layer from growing as big as it would have had we not acted.

    Do you know why we barely hear about acid rain or the hole in the ozone layer anymore is because we largely solved those problems by taking appropriate action to scrub SO2 emissions and ban CFCs. The reason we still hear about Climate change, is because we have not taken action to prevent it, and it's getting worse and worse with every passing year.

    You're almost 40, you've seen leaded petrol banned in Europe, you've seen the ban on 'smoky coal' in towns and cities, The ban on Aspestos for fireproofing, When the age for smoking was 16 and pretty much everyone was addicted to nicotine by the age of 18, you likely remember what it was like before the plastic bag tax, where every tree and bush had plastic bags stuck in them, you remember being in pubs where your eyes stung from the smoke and when the water at the beaches was filthy from raw sewage being dumped into it

    When the worlds scientists come together and call for action because something has been identified as a serious threat, they don't do it for the laugh. And when they've consistently been talking about the same threat, gathering more and more evidence and data that consistently points to the same conclusion for decades, you need to pay attention

    The only organisations who oppose climate change action are doing so because it is in their financial self interest to muddy the water on climate science.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The whole wood pellet fad was just another example of Irish Greens jumping on the next shinny thing without even doing the most basic research Something I pointed out at the time because I knew having done business in the past with the company who manufactured these pellets in Ireland.

    This company imported timbers with a low moisture content where sawdust was a by-product and a nuisance as it was difficult to get rid of. They hit on the idea of wood pellets to solve the problem. The initial price was low as they were just happy to cover their overheads and save on the cost of disposing of the sawdust, but the amount being produced after the initial mountain of sawdust was always going to be low. Had anyone bothered to do research they would have seen this plus the fact that the moisture levels in Irish grown timber are much to high for the production of wood pellets making any sense.

    The biomass objection to converting those two turf burning plants looks nothing more than another solo run by Irish Greens similar to LNG. They keep beating people over the heads with E.U. policy and directives, yet are happy to ignore that biomass is being promoted by The Institute for European Environmental Policy under the E.U Green Deal as an alternative energy source, even if for me it`s in the same basket of nonsense as wood pellets and the 1997 Kyoto Accord policy on diesel engines



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Those two plants have only been shut for 15 months, so I would not see it as unsurmountable that they could be re-opened relatively quickly.

    Is it not time for the Green Party and their supporters to wake up and smell the coffee ?

    We are staring an imminent energy crisis in the face that wind or solar power are not going to make even a dent in, yet they are opposed to LNG and turf burning power plants. Nuclear power flowing through imaginary interconnectors,, even if these interconnectors were there is not going to happen anytime soon, as no country will have a surplus to export.

    All that is left to prevent the lights going out is coal and oil and they are still having wet dreams on closing the largest coal burning plant in the state by 2025 and the largest oil burning plant by 2023.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The problem is that you're dealing with a group for whom ideology is more important than the reality.

    Their only answer to that is to force their ideology through by making the reality more untenable through bans and taxation.

    The truth of course is that even if everything and everyone in Ireland was "green" in the morning, it would have almost no net effect on the global "crisis" - but the Greens would get to feel smug and virtue signal which is another goal in itself for this movement.

    But like so much else in the last few years, it seems that there's increasing push back from the general public who are being scolded for not being onboard but who are left dealing with the fallout of these crusades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Attempting to promote a politically agenda in a democracy by means of coercive taxes is never a great idea. The day will come when the rubber meets the road and that day has arrived here with fuel prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    They are still intact though, tenders for demolition only went out recently



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,076 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Then those tenders should be rescinded and they should be kept intact. If need be I would not see any great problem in re-opening them and their capability of producing 400 MW sneezed at.

    Just 15 months after they were shut down it should not be that difficult to re-staff them and the harvesters would not be a major problem either as that was mainly carried out by local seasonal part-time workers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭SomeGuyCalledMi



    I cant understand why people keep bringing up the idea that what we do in our country makes no difference. We only have say over our country. Its a small country and there is nothing we can do about that. We don't have influence over China or the US so why keep talking about them?

    Being a small country is an advantage. We don't have to get rid of a 100 million fossil fuel cars. We don't have to shut down 50 coal fired power stations. Isn't that a good thing for us? Why do the pro oil brigade always use this as an excuse to do nothing? Its embarrassing that this even needs to be explained.

    If China was divided up into 500 small countries does that mean their carbon emissions no longer matter?

    Needing to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions is not an ideology. Not believing it doesn't make it go away.

    You seem to hate the green party. But even if they don't get elected again it wont make any difference to your pro oil agenda. FFG have signed reducing green house gases in to law.

    Every time I fill my car with Diesel some money goes to Putin to make more child killing tanks. Please stop forcing your pro-oil agenda on us. Surly, with all that has been happening for the last few weeks, you can see we've had enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Is the equipment itself still in a serviceable condition though? Could be anything from needing just a little oil to needing reassembly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Every time I fill my car with Diesel some money goes to Putin to make more child killing tanks. Please stop forcing your pro-oil agenda on us. Surly, with all that has been happening for the last few weeks, you can see we've had enough.


    You forgot to mention that majority of your money will go to Saudis to buy more child killing bombs from UK & USA. Give credit where it is due....



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    "Pro-oil brigade", "pro-oil agenda", think of the children - god I hate the influence of Twitter!

    Ireland is indeed a small country with a lot of significant problems in housing, health, an increasing cost of living (before Putin decided to invade his neighbour), and all of these issues have gotten worse in the last 2 years (Covid merely took them off the front pages) to where many people are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and pay their bills, face long commutes to work every day with no viable public transport alternatives, and now are struggling to even do that with the massive increases in fuel costs.

    How exactly do you expect people already living paycheck to paycheck to bear more direct costs on themselves or through taxation or other charges to fund this notion of a carbon free country - and how do you plan to sell it to them when the countries you mention are doing what they want while you ask them to give up whatever luxuries they can afford, own nothing, put up with a vastly reduced standard of living etc .... for what? Social media kudos? Oh and that's not including massive national debt that amounts to 47k per person at this point!

    What will address the climate "crisis" is technology advancement in industry and manufacturing in the countries that are responsible for the highest levels of pollution, not crippling some poor sod in an island of 5 million people (less than the population than many major cities) travelling 2 hours to the office with even more taxes.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Regardless, the govt failed in its planning application to extend the life of the plants. To restart them would require new planning permission which is unlikely to be granted seeing as its already been rejected



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If global average temperature only increases by 1.5c we'd be extremely lucky (and even still, experience quite severe consequences), Unfortunately we're on track now to increase global average temperatures by more than 2c with the possibility of increases up to 3-4c

    For context, the average surface temperature on Earth is about 14c, so a 1.5c change is huge in this context, and a 3-4c change would fundamentally change every system on our planet and cause extreme disruption to human civilisation. I'm not saying it will drive us to extinction, but major cities would need to be abandoned to rising seas, Other Cities would completely run out of water, storms and rainfall will be more extreme than anythng we have experienced since humans evolved as a species, and areas that currently are inhabited by billions of people would experience deadly, (unsurvivable) heatwaves on a regular basis.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/02/climate-change-to-cause-humid-heatwaves-that-will-kill-even-healthy-people



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Realpolitik has a way of cutting through paperwork like a scythe - eg: Covid responses or the responses to the Financial Crisis



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Rubbish. If Ireland went Green in the World it would have a huge affect on the planet. Per Capita CO2 the only countries ahead of us in Europe is Luxembourg(based on report in 2019). Per capita we are worse than China and we don't have large manufacturing like China.

    The easy answer by people is point at someone else and say look at them without realising Ireland is way behind every other country in Europe. We have the one of the lowest land coverage with trees etc

    What your post does prove is you have no idea about the environment or the affect it is having not only on the current population but also on future generations in Ireland. Some people will be happy to leave Ireland as a piece of crap in the Atlantic ocean, the rest would like to fix the problems of the past, not repeat them. Shouting about "da Greens" as well just proves you have no idea, every party signed up to the Paris Agreement, the Greens had maybe 1-2 TD's at most in the Dail at the time.

    Also, you can support environmental and sustainable projects and not support the Greens, every party now has a Green agenda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    None of this addresses the reality I gave examples of in the post above, which was my point previously - ideology and high-minded ideals are all well and good and might play well in the media, but they tend to fall flat against the hard wall called reality.

    As for the "per capita" stuff.. so Ireland as a nation puts out more damaging emissions than China, the US, India and other developing nations do we?

    What this is is another "crusade" for those in the Western world who have turned inwards and are now tearing each other apart on the altar of ideology, identity and culture war - meanwhile the rest of the world shrugs bemusedly and ploughs on!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,361 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    With the government saying it can’t reduce fuel costs anymore as it’s needed for taxation etc


    How are they going to replace all the lost money they get from petrol and diesel when we all have to go electric?



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