Civil Service Mileage Rate

I agree with you on one thing, the travel rates are too high, they make it so people are delighted to get out on the road. It should be a bit less so it just feels like a reimbursement rather than a real boon. There is no doubt it is being abused by some staff.

Did you ever apply for a job in the public service Yorky.

You haven't been following what's been happening with inflation then?

Oooh, there's an interesting move in your position. Now we can be graced with payment for fuel (though it would be impossible to link fuel usage to any particular journey). Should we pretend that we're grateful now with your largesse, your majesty?

Where exactly is it 'massively abused'? Some factual evidence would be great.

No, I mean paying the debts of banks and property developers, your beloved 'real economy' according to yourself. That's where the pension reserve fund, according to yourself. Maybe you got too distracted obsessing about CS mileage to actually notice what happened?

I'm not sure if you understand employee contracts either. Suggesting that employees should contribute the full cost of their pension somewhat negates the value of that aspect of their remuneration. You know that no employer can single-handedly decide to change the terms of an existing employment contract, I'm sure, so yet again, it is another silly, completely impractical suggestion.

Prices have been rising in this country hence inflation running so high. Private businesses aren't afraid to put their prices up.

I fully support the PS getting a pay rise, most of them work hard. The current pay deal is coming to an end and thankfully the people who will be deciding on these matters don't have a gripe against them. They are grateful for the work they do.

So many factual errors here, it's really getting tiresome to be correcting you. Do you not get tired of embarrassing yourself in a public forum?

1) I got pay increases every year during my private sector years, including the bad times of the 80s. Pay increases are normal in many jobs, public and private. Incremental pay scales are normal in many jobs, public and private.

2) It's not hard to get evidence at all of public sector activity. I recall full detail of FAS staff expenses being released under FOI at one stage. I picked through it to see what trips a relative had been doing. It is remarkably easy to get evidence, if you bother your ass to look.

3) If you're no evidence, how can you stand up here in a public forum and claim something to be a fact. If you're no evidence, it isn't happening. It is just your bitter and twisted imagination.

4) If you think that 'union fury' creates a veto on matters being investigated, you're living in dream world. There are many, many matters investigated by HR teams, regardless of whether unions are furious or not. You'll also find that unions won't stand behind any abuse of public money.

5) The banks were indebted because those in 'the real economy' to use your own phrase gave loans to people who hadn't a snowball's chance in hell of paying it back, to get their short term bonuses and stock options. We're all still picking up the bill for 'the real economy'.

6) PRD has NOT now been reverted. If it has, someone owes me a sh1t load of money that's been coming off my payslip every fortnight for the last decade. It has merged into the ASC deduction, a 'permanent and radical change' that you don't seem to have noticed. For the reductions that were reversed, there was never any back pay as part of the reversions.

7) Governments are not 'funded by the private sector'. Everyone pays tax, PAYE, VAT, Customs and more. Many people have both public and private sector income. You don't have any monopoly on Government funding or any special claim on how it is spent.

8) All mileage expenses are tax-free up to the Revenue limits, for public and private sector. Why would you end up being paid tax on reimbursements for out of pocket expenses?

You really should do some little bit of research before you post.

They will get a pay rise because they deserve it.

1) Who do you think pays for the 'no problem' pay rises in the private sector? We all do as customers, every time we pay our broadband or buy our groceries or have a meal out or takeaway. It may be no problem to you, but inflation is definitely a problem for me. And I know you're going to come back with the snappy 'but you have choices' as it that makes it OK. Try choosing between the 'great' customer support of Eir and Virgin, for example, in terms of call wait times and competing to find cheaper and cheaper countries to outsource their phone calls to, regardless of the impact on customers. You DO have choices of course when it comes to public services. IF you don't like things here, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

2) There's no point because you've nothing other than anecdote. You think the entire public service should be outsourced and Toryified because of what your mate told you in the pub, regardless of all the evidence of positive citizen experiences and strong performance of international comparisons. You throw out complaints about 'lack of flexibility' after two years of the public service turning itself on its head, changing services, roles, structures, and staff paying for the heating and power of their office locations. You're not very good at facts, are you?

3) and 4) Funny how quickly you run out of anything factual to say when challenged.

5) Do you actually know what 'exponentially' means? Perhaps you're more optimistic about the outcome of the next round of pay negotiations, but I'd be really surprised if I get an exponential salary increase. And yes, public services require people to run them - it is pretty difficult to run schools, hospitals, social welfare offices, libraries, parks without having actual humans paid to do a job. That's just a fact, regardless of how much you want to whinge about it.

6) So you were wrong about PRD being reverted and you were wrong about back pay for those cuts that were reverted. And yes, public sector pensions ARE paid out of current expenditure, same as in many countries around the world. Again, that's not a criticism of public servants, who don't get any choice in the matter. That's also why there will almost certainly never be a switch to DC pensions - because the Government would be funding BOTH DC and DB pensions for about 50 years before the savings kick in. That's a hard sell, politically. You were wrong about 6 months sick pay too.

7) There is no 'rebate'. Public servants pay the same taxes as everyone else, and MORE in fact, with the ASC. And private sector people get lots of benefits from the State. The vast majority of households in the country get child benefit, or older person pensions. Lots of households got their PUP subsidies, as did their employers. Lots of employers are happy to suckle at the tit for a wide range for grants and subsidies. And then there is the wide variety of tax reliefs availed of by many, especially by the middle/higher income earners. Let's have a close look at all those before you jump to too many conclusions.

8) Yes, out of pocket expenses, fuel, tyres, servicing, tolls, parking, insurance - all rolled into the single mileage payment - but I tell you what, let's do away with all of that use of private cars. Let's just rent cars for public servants where necessary, or let's do every trip on public transport, turning a one-day trip to Ballina or Belmullet into a two-day or three-day trip with overnights instead. ILet's not have public servants getting up at five am or getting home at ten or eleven pm after being flexible. We'll do all the trips in working hours on public transport, and see how that works out for you. Be careful what you wish for.

One of the things you learn when you get into policy development is to ignore unsupported anecdotes, like the 'my friend'.... stories. Direct personal experience is a valuable input to policy development. Second hand stories from down the pub, not so much.

If your performance isnt satisfactory in thebcivil service you wont get your increment. Again another BS statement you have made. I'd hate to have someone like you working for my team in the civil service. A negative horrible little man.

It is an unwinnable argument when the facts aren’t on your side. It is an unwinnable argument when all you have is the kind of tired oul guff you get from the pub bore that you can’t wait to escape from. It is an unwinnable argument when you have to make up your own definition of ‘retirement’ different to the definition used by everyone else, all over the world. It is an unwinnable argument when it relies on pretending that sick pay doesn’t exist in the private sector. It is an unwinnable argument when you speak about ‘many PS employees’ based on what you admit is purely anecdotal. It is an unwinnable argument when the actual data on public sector absence rates tells the complete reverse story to what you claim.

Tell you what - tell us where these ‘many PS employees’ who use sick leave as additional annual leave, and I’ll do the FOI request for you to see the exact data, so we can see exactly what’s going on. You’ll find that the most of the leave absences are taken by a relatively small number of staff, those who face into cancer, stroke, serious injury or other conditions that require months of absence and rehab to recover. But you won’t be happy until you downgrade the terms and conditions of every public sector employee to that of the worst of precarious employment provided by your heroes in ‘the real economy’. Unfortunately for you, the trend is going in the opposite direction.

How’s that “working to pay our wages” working out for you?

The public service put their shoulder to the wheel after the crash of 2008. Paycuts and reforms were implemented without too much complaint. Some of those were reversed over the years and rightly so. More to follow. The government haven’t forgotten the cooperation of the PS when the chips were down. I don’t see them shafting the PS now. Especially after the work many did during the covid pandemic. I believe a pay increase will be paid out in the next round of negotiations.

Yorky don’t give up the dream of joint the PS, do a course and prepare well for the interviews. Best of luck.

You’ve some neck, still banging the “paying your salary “ drum while you were drawing the PUP, still banging the “public service doing nothing “ when that was precisely what you were doing yourself.

It really is starting to look like the green eyed monster has gotten under your skin.

So are you actually contributing to the State now?

As is the PUP and the dole you've been enjoying while preparing your clever responses.

Did you apply for any of the many vacant public sector roles while you were lazing on the couch?