Random EV thoughts.....

Charging at home just multiply your unit rate by the number of kWh you want to add to your battery.

On the road Ecars for example are €0.305 for a 50kw charger of €0.37 for a 150kw charger.

Again multiply that by how many kWh you need to complete the journey.

Tesla charge a little more than that, my two (only) charge sessions so far were 36c and 35c/kWh.

Usually the "stronger" the charger the more you'll pay. The AC chargers will be cheaper but slow. DC will be more expensive but will be much quicker to charge.

They actually charged me even though I said no. I'll get it back I'm sure. Currency is CHF which is close enough to EUR

Beside that I must say the charging network in Swiss is just a dream and I think we're at least 10 years behind. Nearly every service station has charging facilities (multiples) and even rest places like below would have "hubs". All the places I stopped had multiple chargers some even multiple networks.

Having a Leaf was sort of "back to the future" moment, because most of the chargers would be 200+kW capable and you're charging at the last charger in a corner at a very old unit at a tenth of the speed. The car was fine, nice interior, quiet, decent power, but stuck in time. Charging with 22kW at 20% SoC never happened to me before. Took moments to realize I had to shift gears to start the car, never figured a way to display the charging rate on the dash and the size of the charging flap made me smile. On the way back I had to drive only 120km from full and it was an absolute relaxing drive. Stopped at golden arches and enjoyed a sundae while charging at "Mc hub" with perfectly designed layout, with all 3 charging standards as outputs. 0.45 CHF kWh and 0.25 CHF per minute after one hour.

I didn't really have time to play with the car as I was there for work and time was a big constrain but I will not be afraid to rent it again should the opportunity arise. The price was same as a manual golf and you really get a higher spec. I'd say though if you don't have experience with EVs you may be in for a surprise.

I think others have given good answers regarding charging power and different prices

Just wanted to echo that it is unfortunately a bit complicated figuring out how quickly your car will need to charge. Basically the charger and car need to agree on how much power to supply to the car at any given time

So for example if your car can support 125kW and you plug into a 150kW charger, you'll only get 125kW. Similarly if you plug into a 50kW charger, you'll only get 50kW because the charger is limited to that

Another fun topic is charging curves. Basically unlike a fossil car, EVs don't charge at a constant rate. They generally charge faster the lower the battery charge, and they slow down as the battery fills up

For home charging it's a lot simpler since the car is stationary overnight. However, if you fully charged the Ioniq 5 77kWh overnight it would need 11 hours, 2 hours longer than the night rate

So charging costs would be more like:

7kW * 9 hours = 63kWh * €0.0695/kWh = €4.38

7kW * 2 hours = 14 kWh * €0.02413/kWh = €3.38

Total €7.76

That should be enough for 350km range easy. So cost per km for home charging is 2.2c/km

Since you mentioned you drive a lot for work, let's try to factor in some DC charging into the costs

Say of the 40,000km driving, you did 10,000km from DC chargers and the rest from home charging. Assuming a year round consumption of 22kWh/100km this means you'll need 8,800kWh per year, of which 2,200 will be from DC chargers

2200kWh * €0.37/kWh = €814 / 10,000km = €0.0814/km

Doing some averaging out gives me a cost per km of 3.7c/km, or a total cost of €1,474 for electricity

For comparison, a diesel car achieving 5l/100km at €2/l would cost €4,000 per year in fuel, or 10c/km

Not bad when you basically get a free holiday out of switching to an EV 😁

The fee to fill up your car in electric us far less than say Petrol or Diesel, particularly if you have a long daily commute and you can charge at home overnight on night rate. I used to do 110km per day for about 2 euro, that's 20kWh of energy at 10cent per unit. Public chargers are typically 3 or 4 or 7 times the price of night rate. Main issue is public chargers are often busy, blocked or broken. There are no real signs enough are going to rolled out to meet demand so situation will get worse. If you can avoid public charging on daily trips then an EV is great. Beware claimed range on EVs. Real world winter range is less than the claim with most new EVs struggling to make 300km in winter at full motorway speeds. Then they typically need nearly an hour to fill up again, if you need to keep going much further. Often at peak times the chargers have 1+ hour queues. They can be great money savers but do the real world research.

It’s a 2012, and they seem to be going for in or around €7-€8k, so I think we’d do well to get maybe €5k for it.

I would say you're over thinking the charging costs, cost to fill isn't really a thing as you're normally just topping up rather than empty to full.

Mileage of 40,000 per year

EV costs:

For the likes of an Ioniq 5 take 20kwh/100km.

Cost @€0.10/kWh is €2.

Per year is €800

Diesel @ 6l/100km

Cost €2/l is €12

Per year is €4,800

Some rough maths there but looks like a saving of around 4k per year so even if you have to pay 100-200 a year in fast chargers you're still saving thousands.

Aircraft? I remember reading somewhere that the energy density needed for a long haul airliner is right at the theoretical limit of solid state batteries, so probably not going to be achieved for a long while

For trucks I think there has to be a mentality change like for EVs. Assuming a good charging network gets rolled out that can support electric trucks, there's probably still going to be some time lost to recharging

Time lost means fewer deliveries and lost revenue. The thing is, does the savings in fuel offset that?

Some googling tells me that a HGV consumes 30-40l/100km of diesel. Averaging to 35l/100km at €2/l gives €70/100km or €0.70/km

Couldn't find much on electric truck consumption but if you need 800kW to give 500km range in 45mins then that's roughly a 1MW battery and 200kWh/100km

The electricity cost is a tricky one to figure out. Fast charging will be expensive and overnight charging will still need a 100kW connection, so probably more expensive than domestic rates. On the other hand you can sell power back to the grid at peak times, making some money back. Let's assume it averages out to €0.20/kWh

So total cost for the electric truck is €40/100km or €0.40/km, about half the diesel truck

I would imagine halving your fuel costs would more than offset losing maybe an hour's delivery time per day. The big question is the electricity prices, they're the crucial factor

There would also need to be large scale rollout of megawatt scale truck chargers, and 100kW chargers at truck depots for overnight charging

Thinking of buying a 50kwh Zoe GT as a second EV. Has anybody here any experience, good or bad, of them? Thanks.

That was based on car not having some fancy computerized safety systems not on the car.

In terms of Zoe check it has the ccs faster charging as that was an optional extra on some models. The Zoe is a good car, on the smaller side but we'll regarded and reliable. Educate yourself in real winter range and problems when you need to public charge and be realistic. If it suits you will depend on your daily commute and needs.

It got zero NCAP stars when it was re-certified. That’s more than a lack of active monitoring protection, that’s a complete lack of any kind of protection required from a 2016 car never mind a 2022. Read the full report: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/66976/euroncap-2021-renault-zoe-datasheet.pdf. It scored spectacularly badly at lateral impact protection, offers almost zero protection to people outside the car and they removed an airbag that was previously there.

I'm guessing they're banking on the shortages having cleared up by then. And I imagine the dealership will be ringing you to try and lock in an order well in advance

It's a fair point though, delays happen all the time and I wonder what happens when you run out of time on your PCP. I'm guessing they'll want the final payment or the car back

True, I'm just curious as to what happens if your PCP is up and your new car hasn't arrived. You should have plenty to equity left on the car to cover the final payment, so would they just call it quits and let you drive it until the new car arrives

I'm assuming you would be ordering from the same garage here

Is it technically possible to tow a generator behind an electric car and have it so that the batter in car never needs to visit another charger.