Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Larbre34 · 13-03-2022 1:24am

NATO countries had hundreds, if not thousands of military trainers and advisors working with the Ukrainian armed forces. They left within days and weeks of this invasion taking place.

The only insurgents on Ukrainian soil are those supported and armed by Russia in the illegal self declared territories in Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

Let's be absolutely clear on that. The armed forces of the Republic of Ukraine are the constitutionally legitimate military of that Country. Ukrainians who join those forces as reservists and volunteers are entitled to that legitimacy.

No other armed group, militia or foreign military have any right to be operating on Ukrainian soil, save for any who are there at the invitation of the President and his Government.

windy shepard henderson · 13-03-2022 1:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118771125#Comment_118771125

a number of things have to be looked at here ,

1 , Mariupol is being bombarded deliberately , something happened in that region that has pissed off the russian separatists

2 . international intervention has been slow , i reckon its because of this ,

3. nato did not get involved in Georgia or chenyia, so why now , again did something happen in the separatist areas to really provoke this outcome its a war on its 7th or 8th year now .....

13-03-2022 2:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776310#Comment_118776310

We know that the Americans were training and equipping the Ukrainians since at least 2014. It is a matter of public record since the budgets are disclosed, and dozens of articles exist about it. We even know there was some controversy about whether weapons should be provided to neo-nazi groups. (it was initially prohibited and later allowed)

Whether they still have so-called "advisors" on the ground is unknown. But one can look at previous proxy wars and assume that they are.

It should be noted that the Ukrainians have trained for insurgency, while the Russians currently show little appetite for that type of war. They are encircling cities and laying siege. You cannot get in or out, cannot get supplies, no food, no water, constant bombardment. It's ugly, barbaric and effective.

fryup · 13-03-2022 11:24am

bombs falling close to the polish border - what happens if they do fall on the polish side?

odyssey06 · 13-03-2022 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776872#Comment_118776872

Chechnya was internal to Russia.

Georgia was a mismatch so point in assisting and no attempt was made to take all of Georgia.

International response has been slow?

Unprecedented sanctions. EU providing arms.

What on earth are you on about.

Your post contradicts itself. Its mystery why they are slow... then its a mystery why they are there at all.

Brussels Sprout · 13-03-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118773655#Comment_118773655

The Russians installed a new mayor in Melitopol yesterday.

Last night, Galina Danilchenko, a former city council member, was announced as the new mayor on local TV.

Danilchenko urged residents not to take part in what she called "extremist actions".

A curfew has been announced in the city and protests banned.

source

I would imagine she has just put a massive target on her own back. Nobody forgets the quislings.

Meanwhile the Russians have apparently abducted a second mayor:

https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1502945209159761923

13-03-2022 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777687#Comment_118777687

The poster you are talking to went off on a bender last night and in the Russiia thread started calling people nonces. They did however correctly manage to call themselves a twat.

Brussels Sprout · 13-03-2022 2:22pm

Multiple reports on Twitter that a US journalist - a video operator for the New York Times, has been shot dead near Irpin - 2 others injured.

Also there was a massive missile attack on an airbase overnight in the far-west of the country. 35 soldiers dead and 134 injured. Apparently 30 rockets hit the base. I've seen a few people speculate that this was the Russians specifically targeting the influx of ammunition and men from the west. No word on any foreign deaths from that yet but it could well be possible.

It's been mostly very grim news this weekend from a Ukrainian point of view and you'd have to think that the sieges of Kyiv and Odessa are still to come in the near future.

Edit:

The New York times have announced that he no longer worked for them (he still had his NYT Press ID which seems have caused the confusion):

This is from the BBC's updates page

A US journalist, Brent Renaud, has been shot dead in the town of Irpin outside Kyiv, police say.

Kyiv's police chief Andriy Nebytov said he had been targeted by Russian soldiers. Two other journalists were injured and taken to hospital.

It is the first reported death of a foreign journalist covering the war in Ukraine.

Photographs are circulating showing a press ID for Renaud that was issued by the New York Times.

In a statement, the newspaper said it was saddened to hear of Renaud's death but that he had not been working for the newspaper in Ukraine.

He last worked for the newspaper in 2015, the NYT said, and the press ID he was wearing in Ukraine had been issued years ago. It was not immediately clear who Renaud was working for in Ukraine.

ODriscoll · 13-03-2022 3:24pm

McGiver · 13-03-2022 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118774608#Comment_118774608

Russian political tactics are the same since 1917 or so...the list of puppet republics they tried to install or installed since then is very long.

Finland, Estonia, Bavaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, Turkestan, Azerbaijan etc etc. Thankfully, some of them failed early on (Bavaria, Finland etc.).

liamtech · 13-03-2022 4:52pm

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/275-the-russian-war-in-ukraine

Hi all.

Just listening to Sam Harris and Gary Kasparov - its quite interesting. Kasparov has been popping up in several interviews since all this began

Vocal critic of Putin
Knows the history of his rise to power
discusses how to deal with this situation

The first 35 mins is available free - Harris paywalls some of his stuff, as he doesnt use advertising what so ever. However he also has a subscribe for free option, for those who cannot afford to // reluctant to subscribe

corkie · 13-03-2022 5:43pm

@liamtech

Was listening to Gary recently as well.

What is Putin’s Endgame? Garry Kasparov on Russia’s Attack on Ukraine | Amanpour and Company

He mentioned 'Putin's famous Munich Speech 2007' which lead me down the rabbit hole of listening to that as well.

It is well known that international security comprises much more than issues relating to military and political stability. It involves the stability of the global economy, overcoming poverty, economic security and developing a dialogue between civilisations.

This universal, indivisible character of security is expressed as the basic principle that “security for one is security for all”. As Franklin D. Roosevelt said during the first few days that the Second World War was breaking out: “When peace has been broken anywhere, the peace of all countries everywhere is in danger.”

Putin quoting Roosevelt above.

Garry Kasparov told us what it's like to live in fear of being assassinated by Putin

"Would it help? I live in New York, so what else can I do? I live in New York, I don't drink tea with strangers," he says.

"Tea with strangers" is a reference to the death of Alexander Litvinenko, the former Russian FSB secret service agent who was fatally poisoned in 2006 when he met two Putin agents at the Millennium Hotel in Mayfair who placed radioactive polonium-210 into his drink.

In 2014, he obtained Croatian citizenship, and has maintained a residence in Podstrana near Split.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Kasparov

liamtech · 13-03-2022 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779568#Comment_118779568

https://www.amazon.com/Winter-Coming-Vladimir-Enemies-Stopped-ebook/dp/B012271KCU

Added the above to my wish list

Also done a search and found some more interviews both old, and current. It is interesting to hear him speak, as a Russian on this topic.

Big fan of Harris too - he has another older interview with Kasparov - many years ago.. and the title is apt

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/the-putin-question

saabsaab · 13-03-2022 6:44pm

One of the reporters at the Polish border said that many of the Ukrainians thought they would be returning home in a few weeks! Possible I guess but this has the potential to go on for years.

Nody · 13-03-2022 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118779876#Comment_118779876

Latest update from both Russian and Ukrainian side is that the talks are progressing well and they expect it may be resolved in a couple of days. I'd be doubtful if it was one side stating it but with both sides confirming it I'm slightly optimistic (and I'm sure there will be under the table deals with USA in regards to sanctions etc. tied into it as well)...

saabsaab · 13-03-2022 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780085#Comment_118780085

Sadly I doubt that it will. Putin is looking for a victory.

Nody · 13-03-2022 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780093#Comment_118780093

There is no victory for Putin; if he does not get rid of sanctions the Russian economy will go down to African country level which no matter of propaganda can fix (keep in mind the total Russian economy before invasion was 10% smaller than the Nordic countries combined). What he needs is a small enough loss to spin it as completion of the "special operation" tied with enough removal of sanctions to rescue the current economy free fall. As the official reason was "de nazification" of Ukraine he can strike a deal and claim mission completed and pull out on it.

saabsaab · 13-03-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780109#Comment_118780109

Yes, there is no real victory for Putin.

beggars_bush · 13-03-2022 9:26pm

Not a chance Putin is going to stop until he has ground the Ukrainians into the dirt.

amacca · 13-03-2022 9:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780109#Comment_118780109

If he does that it's a guaranteed death sentence for him imo...

That's why I'd be doubtful, unless he really has gone full looper....

Pussyhands · 13-03-2022 10:01pm

Re: topic of Putins end game. This video I posted before gives an excellent overview of what Putins thinking might be. The major interesting point from the vide is that it says in the 2010's, one of the biggest oil/gas reserves in the world was discovered in Ukraine. This is a potential risk for Putin with a Ukraine moving closer to EU in that the EU could get rid of Russian gas/oil and just using Ukraines which would cripple their economy.

Now people might say it's been crippled now anyways but there's major damage done to the EU too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE&t=2s

Manach · 13-03-2022 10:32pm

While it is hoped the Russian invaders return to their bases with no changes to Ukraines integrity, it is in few people's interests to have an unstable Russia post-war. I remember the fear during the breakup of the USSR that the entity would go through a very bloody disintegration akin to 1917-21 with the addition of nuclear weapons. Thankfully it did not happen, but pushed to the brink a Putin (who showed remarkedly poor judgement with this invasion) might not be as careful in his handover of power as was Gorbachev to Yelstin.

Pussyhands · 13-03-2022 10:33pm

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-romania-europe-nato-hungary-2b58d22ec7e4bfbb72ea4637e86e49f9

WTF were NATO doing here? A Russian made drone passes over 3 NATO countries, crashes and turns out it's carrying a bomb and apparantly it exploded underground.

Were NATO scared sh!tless of taking down a Russian aircraft that could be seen by Russia as an aggressive act and thus start WW3? They didn't even notify the NATO countries about it.

Gatling · 14-03-2022 1:28am

Imagine the having to look yourself in the mirror after claiming your special military operation to dezazifiy would only take 3 days to liberate ukraine from nato aggression and you have to beg ,the Chechens , Belarusians, Syrians and now the Chinese to help save your military ,and yet putin the master tactician has alot of people fooled into believing he was unstoppable.

Some posters have a serious amount of egg on their faces

Akrasia · 14-03-2022 1:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780933#Comment_118780933

A single drone gone awol didn't set off air defenses.

A single lost drone has the radar signature of a migrating goose or flock of geese

liamtech · 14-03-2022 1:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780933#Comment_118780933

i find this story bizarre. 30 year old 'dumb drone' , originally USSR era, now operated by Ukraine, finds itself crashing in Croatia.. having passed through several layers of NATO airspace. I dont know what went on there.

I would speculate that the failure to intercept may have been deliberate, Im quite sure NATO aligned forces monitored the incursion. but its long held strategic 'bread and butter' that if East ever moves against west, they will do so en masse. it will not begin with a single craft. Such a tactic would be counter productive. so,

a malfunction/error - possible
a Russian launch from within Ukraine to probe western aerial defense - possible albeit unlikely
An attempt by Ukraine to 'false flag' the west - bordering on impossible - counter productive to current public relations disposition of the conflict

we may never know

SafeSurfer · 14-03-2022 9:09am

American award winning journalist Brent Renaud was tragically shot and killed near Irpin in Ukraine yesterday. This is a huge story reported on internationally.

Without being vilified for asking the question is the only verification Brent was shot by Russian forces from the local Ukrainian police chief?

It doesn’t matter to his loved ones who shot him, he is dead, but do media outlets , Irish Independent etc, especially in headlines etc often report now without the qualification of “according to a Russian officer” or “according to a Ukrainian officer”?

Don’t bother attacking the question or questioner, just answers please.

Gatling · 14-03-2022 9:28am

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1503272880930447361?s=20&t=9-mHPYZuvFMnI_kP_zAJSQ

We've had another 2 victims of the Mariupol hospital bombing ,a, mother and unborn child passed away despite best efforts to save both ,the mother suffered a crushed pelvis in the attack, child died Despite been delivered by C-section

Nody · 14-03-2022 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781913#Comment_118781913

His partner said from the hospital that it was Russian forces as they passed through the control before being fired up on (which is how I guess they could confirm it were Russian forces).

SafeSurfer · 14-03-2022 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781957#Comment_118781957

I watched that video. He never mentioned “Russian forces”.

Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Comments