Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

EDIT:

Replying to SafeSurfer's post "American award winning journalist Brent Renaud was tragically shot and killed near Irpin in Ukraine yesterday. This is a huge story reported on internationally..."

This post is simply Russian trolling, In My Opinion.

How do you know when Russian spokespersons are lying?

Their lips are moving....

Absolutely everything that comes from Russian media or Russian government outlets, including diplomatic sources, such as Ambassador Filatov in Dublin is untrustworthy. They are all, to a man cowardly liars. In My Opinion.

I must have missed your posts questioning the Russian versions of events on topics discussed on this thread. So do we assume you accept it as the truth or all of it are lies?

Can you not tell from the nature of replies to your posts anyone paying attention to your 'questioning' spots the exact same pattern and arent fooled by your 'both sides' charade.

Can you provide any sources that verify the shooting was done by Russian forces other than the Ukrainian police chief?

In case you didn't get the memo, all deaths, injuries and property damage are the fault of the Russians. They invaded, they started this, nobody else. They are solely responsible regardless of who pulled the trigger. It wouldn't be happening except for the Russians starting it.

Now sod off with your whataboutery.

So no source from you either.

You don’t address the question, rant and accuse me of whataboutery?

Gasparov is very critical of Putin, that's nice, but he is not highly exposed to do anything about it, in my opinion.

But what West/South Europe and non-European allies don't understand is that the issue is not Putin himself. The issue is Russian psyche and Russian system of government in general. Russia has almost no intelligentsia left, there's been at least 5 waves of emigrations over last 100 years. You are left with essentially serfs who are easy to control. This is almost 1984 like situation in real world.

Remove Putin and then what? Who will come next? The population is decimated, brainwashed and under mind control, plus vast majority have the messianic Russian ideas ingrained in them.

They fled back to Ukranian side to receive treatment. If they were being fired at from the Ukranian side that would make no sense.

There is ZERO basis for the scurrilous smokescreen you throw up to deflect any Russian atrocity. Looking for some CSI level standard of evidence you never look for in relation to anything pro-Russian.

Are you even sure there is a war on in Russia? Oh wait, sorry, special military operation? How do we know the checkpoint was even a Russian checkpoint?

it's like the life of brian where brians execution is underway and everyone is walking up and patting him on the back and saying well done you and walking away and he there looking to be rescued!

Can you show us your previous posts where you debunked or queried a Russian lie?

Can you perhaps give us a summary of Russian versions of events you are satisfied were lies?

How about that the Ukranians were shelling themselves? Do you accept or reject this Russian lie?

Or that they staged the attack on the maternity hospital? Do you accept or reject this Russian lie?

How about that the Ukranian government is run by Nazis? Do you accept or reject this Russian lie?

Any neutral observer, of which you claim to be but are not, would reasonable conclude that the scale and extent of Russian lies in this campaign simply bears no comparison with the quality of information on the Ukranian side which may have inflated the extent of casualties inflicted \ received \ aircraft downed etc\ the performance of their armed forces.

Therefore, on the basis of the available information there are zero grounds at present for doubting that the reporter was killed by Russian forces.

Ukrainian Nazis or Russian Nazis?

I see the "Putin is terrible but" club is out in force on this thread. They'll never stop, some of these individuals hate the West more than Putin does. At least he doesn't carry out a pretense of being "objective". Good luck to you.

Relevant to this thread

I take everything BOTH sides say with a large pinch of salt. I don’t blindly accept everything the Ukrainians say because they are the good guys.

I don’t think you or many others on this thread can cast themselves in the role of a “neutral observer”.

You mentioned I never look for evidence in anything reported that is “pro Russian”.

Firstly I would if I could find anything reported that is pro Russian. I would question its veracity.

Secondly I think it’s instructive that you regard the tragic killing of a journalist as somehow pro Ukrainian.

People seem to have lost perspective, believing everything they want to believe without the remotest inkling of scepticism.

The Ukrainian police chief first reported that he was killed by Russian shelling at a checkpoint. I thought it was curious that the Russians would be shelling their own checkpoint.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/national-international/u-s-journalist-brent-renaud-killed-near-kyiv/2893829/?amp