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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Provide a link to an article stating that, which isn't paywalled. The article where that quote comes from seems to be about nimbys protesting against the terminal so the quoted line is probably some specious invented tripe hurled by someone of questionable character, intelligence and impartiality, but I can't tell for sure as the article is unavailable.

    Try again, spoofer No. 2.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The Greens never changed the tax on the older cars in 2008, you do know that. They just changed the tax for new cars. So if you had a 2005 car and the tax was 700 euro in 2007, it was 700 euro in 2008.

    What nobody could predict was people would spend thousands and thousands buy a new car to save 300 euro on tax.

    Even now wit the updated tax system it hasn't changed older cars, my 2016 x5 with a huge diesel engine is 200 or 300 euro or something ridiculous on tax. The price of it has increased in the last year, not because of tax but because of availability. The same issue is in the UK, they had a big article about it and a person bought a car, drove for 3 or 4 years and sold without losing a penny.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    😂

    Only "spoofer" around here is you, you provided a link to a German LNG plant, not to the one in Ireland and totally irrelvant



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    I liked this comment, and then unliked it rapidly when I saw that you were directing to those who are questioning the "consensus"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    "We currently use natural gas to generate a significant amount of our electricity requirements and to help stabilise the peaks and troughs of Renewable energy generation. It's not a case of one or the other. We need a constant, secure and price stable supply of natural gas alongside our renewable energy sources"

    Greens seem incapable of understanding this. It's as if they stick their fingers in their ears when this uncomfortable truth is mentioned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    We have never invested in renewable so that’s why we need so much gas, not sure why people are so confused by this. Investing in renewable means we don’t need as much gas and we also control our own electricity pricing more, we don’t have to worry about what some lunatic in Russia or Uk or anywhere is doing


    Why wouldn’t anyone want us to have the ability to control our own electricity, even if we build a LNG we don’t control it



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    No, regardless of what renewables we have or have not invested in, we will still need gas as due to the inherent unreliability of renewables, they need backup. "It's not a case of one or the other. We need a constant, secure and price stable supply of natural gas alongside our renewable energy sources"

    The lunatics in Russia or elsewhere would have less influence were we to exploit our own reserves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    More complete and utter nonsense.

    We need natural gas because wind energy is unreliable and all other power plants capable of filling that gap in demand versus supply have either been shut down or downgraded.

    Bad and all as the present situation is, had it not occurred until next year Tarbert power plant would also have been closed and two year later Moneytpoint which with both shut would have left us totally reliant on even more natural gas to keep the lights on than we do now. People have been flagging this since long before this present crisis,, but the greens have just been burying their heads in the sand.

    The "we control our own electricity pricing more" is an even bigger load of nonsense.

    We are in the top four E.U countries with the most expensive electricity due to the moronic policy on pricing which has the most expensive component used in the generation process being priced as the total cost. This has resulted in all our electricity being charged as if it was all being produced using natural gas at the price of natural gas anytime it is used in the process regardless of the percentage used.

    This is all pretty basic information at this stage that greens seem determined to ignore.

    Why wouldn`t anyone not want to have the ability to control their own electricity, and where have you gotten this idea that by building our own LNG facilities we would not control them ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,358 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    How is it that energia who used 100% renewable energy on their grid has put up their prices today like bord Gais?


    Where is the discount we are been told about by transitioning to renewables?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    wherever lng comes from, it is subject to the same pricing model that the markets impose, meaning it is subject to the same wholesale price, so even trying to source it in the quantities we need is going to be hugely difficult and expensive.

    the reality is that renewables have been shown to be reliable, you need something like natural gas as a backup for the moment while we transition, and you will need backups for any and every source no matter how reliable hence ultimately a mix of renewables will be implemented playing to the strengths and weaknesses of each one which will ultimately implement an equalibrium.

    we are already importing hugely expensive nuclear from frannce, more of that is likely what we will go for to make up the shortfall as dispite it's expensivity it is available more viabley at the moment, whereas lng on the other hand won't be viable at the moment due to ther wholesale price of natural gas.

    because germany says they will have their lng terminal operational by 2024 doesn't mean they will, as all sorts of issues can plague big infrastructure projects causing delays, a motor way is not comparible to an lng terminal.

    granting the licenses would cost money as there would need to be staff employed to examine the applications, no point if no real interest has been expressed.

    we have cheap energy from renewables, it is gas that is causing the price rises.

    a nuclear plant was never going to happen due to the disproportionate construction, maintenence, decommissioning costs and the prices to the consumer which would be required, which would be multiples of the current price for gas, not to mention the lifetime disproportionate subsidies that would be required.

    just unviable and bad value for money hence hardly anyone investing in it anymore due to the low returns and high cost base but low efficiency and low reliability.

    nuclear is only deemed the same as natural gas for those who already have existing plants, to keep those plants online for as long as possible, it's not for countries who don't have it to waste disproportionate amounts of money on such a bad value venture because there are cheaper sources available that are a fraction of the cost of nuclear, just not viable.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Another tirade, the only nonsense is posted by yourself

    We(Ireland) won’t own the LNG, how do you not understand that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Really, do you not understand how electricity is priced in Ireland?

    First off I have no idea how Energia claim to be 100% renewable, do they monitor every unit on the grid and green stamp it, or are they using marketing?

    Read the rest, the whole market is affected because we are buying fossil fuels, if we remove that and generate our own electricity then we(Ireland) should be able to manage the cost better. At the moment anything in market changes and we are screwed because we don't control anything

    http://ireland2050.ie/questions/what-determines-the-price-of-electricity-in-ireland/



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    an insufferably smug and arrogant prat of the highest order , been getting a weekly foot massage from Matt Cooper on the radio this past two years



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Perhaps you should read what you post.

    To help jog your memory you said :

    “We could use nuclear if there is a surplus available and it is there when we need it,”

    You stated it in this rambling post:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785842#Comment_118785842

    Get your facts right 🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Not just them BP and other oil companies are, you know the game is up when these giants turn



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    If we didn’t have the current levels of renewables in Europe, Ireland included, then we’d of had to buy more gas and probably spent at lest 800 million extra on something that can only be used once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No tirade in any of that. Just simply pointing out your complete lack of knowledge on why we need natural gas due to wind power not being reliable, and how under the past and present policy of shutting down and degrading other power plants that has left us so dependable on gas. A policy that had this crisis arisen next year or two years later would have left us even deeper in the mire requiring even more natural gas than we do now to just keep the lights on.

    Also simply pointing out that no, we do not have cheapest electricity because of renewables (where again you do not have the vaguest idea why,even though it has been pointed out here many times) but rather the 4th. most expensive in the E.U.

    We build a LNG terminal, we source and pay for LNG to be delivered to said terminal, so who do you believe at that stage owns this LNG ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Yet again I have not the vaguest clue what you are on about.

    We would only be able to avail of others nuclear energy if it was available when we needed it.

    Have you missed the Ukrainian war that has been raging for almost three weeks and the shortage of natural gas that is going to cause where prior to this Europe was getting 40% of it`s natural gas supply from Russia. Do you not understand that is going to leave practically ever country in the E.U. in negative territory for their energy needs ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    read your own post

    To help jog your memory you said :

    “We could use nuclear if there is a surplus available and it is there when we need it,”

    You stated it in this rambling post: 

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785842#Comment_118785842

    I replied to saying you can’t just turn on and off nuclear plants. This is the second time your attempting to deny you said what you said.

    Get your facts right 🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The US company, New Fortress Energy, that is building the LNG plant in Kerry owns it and all the LNG in it.

    We (Ireland) don’t source or pay for anything, it’s a private company who will own and dictate what price we pay.

    Once the government gives planning the company can charge us whatever the hell they want and we can do nothing about it. Yet you claim I have no knowledge

    In terms of our price of electricity, already provided the link on the breakdown

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/bord-defers-decision-on-planning-permission-for-650m-shannon-lng-plant-1.4820778



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Oh the earth will be grand. Humans and very many of the species unlucky enough to be stuck in our epoch, not so much (if we allow the worst to pass)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Is that not even more reason to show why I said we should be building our own LNG terminal and sourcing our own LNG ?

    Our price of electricity is as I have repeatedly said due to the moronic pricing policy that green`s here have in the past been cheering on, so are you saying we are not the 4th. most expensive country in the E.U. for electricity ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Again I have not even the vaguest idea what you are attempting to say, and from reading your post neither do you as it`s all over the place.

    Best I can manage is you somehow got the idea that I believed that if we had our own nuclear plant, rather than use it as a primary source of energy supply, we would for some bizarre unknown reason switch it on and off randomly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    We don't have a supply of LNG. The company Ireland just blocked building the LNG plant is now the company you are trying to buy off. Guess what they are going to do?

    Again the only way Ireland can control its electricity pricing is generate our own via renewable technologies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Looks like it's going to be growing oilseed rape to power bio-diesel generators,



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You really do not have a clue when it come to LNG do you ?

    At least not if you believe that Hess LNG is the only supplier in the world of LNG. Do a bit of research and you will see who the major players are. Quite a few of which we are already doing business with and have been for decades.

    We have been generating electricity using renewables and we are one of the most expensive in Europe for electricity because of a crazy pricing system beloved by the greens, and a policy that has left us with an over dependence on gas due to shutdowns and downgrading of plants capable of using other energy sources.

    Those are the plain simple facts. Ignore them if you wish, but don`t pretend you do not know them and waste others time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    And again we currently have a good supply of our own natural gas. Unfortunately those resources have a limited extraction window. And now the greens have effectively closed down any possibility of finding any new gas resources

    The greens have done the same with all options for LNG imports as well

    despite the fact we need a safe, secure and reliable source of natural gas to help stabilise supplies of renewable energy generation for the foreseable futute, especially in light of increasingly scarce supplies of gas in Europe.

    And here, we now the greens are hanging us out to dry. Well done you greens



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Ah well, might as well enjoy ourselves while we are here then.



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