Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

Options
12467182

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭HerrKapitan



    There are no shortage of real world negative if not outright disastrous and terrifying ongoing situations that demand our attention right now, and it feels like this has been the case for at least a few years, if not all the way back to the financial crash in 08.

    The situation in Ukraine, the ongoing Covid pandemic situation, the impact of Brexit are all very significant events which if they were being dealt with on their own would still be a memorable time in ones life, moreso depending on your proximity to them obviously. Having them all happen at the same time has been like some sort of nightmare that keeps getting worse.

    Over the last 5-10 years, we've seen a growing conversation, including to a very significant level on here, suggesting that the things to be concerned about in the world have been liberal initiatives such as advocating for the climate, considering women's experience in society, multiculturalism, conversations about identity and so on. These have all been lumped together as 'woke/progressive/liberal/leftist/socialist/communist' agendas' that must be stopped or at least we should be wary of.

    And yet, none of the significant life events that we are experiencing and suffering through are the cause of these topics that have fueled huge amounts of conversation as being something we need to be guarded against. And I don't think this is an accident. I believe that many of the influential people who have tried to focus peoples concern towards 'woke/liberal/progressive' topics have inflamed these mostly 'false flag' topics to both distract from what they themselves have been doing or what others that they agree with, have been doing and to paint anything that can be considered as progressive to be viewed warily as something to be concerned about and on guard against.

    Russia is a central player in the whole conversation and not just because of what they are doing in Ukraine. The links between Russian operatives and key people in the UK (more of which is emerging hour by hour right now), in Europe, in the US and how those people have been involved in events in their own countries. The influence from prominent media platforms in the UK and USA for Russian positions. The admiration from influential conservative mouthpieces for Russia and Putin being very much non-woke and these people trying to promote the same ideals elsewhere. Many online bot and malware initiatives which emerge out of Russia. All these points are just some of the things that have influenced how we have experienced things such as US elections, the whole Brexit conversation, the Covid pandemic and the situation in Ukraine since 2014 and particularly now.

    The promoting of uber-nationalism, minimal regulation at a corporate level with increased regulation at a personal level, media and free speech control and the downplaying of educated and experienced voices on various topics has shown to be a dangerous path to go down, and that is the path we are on in some instances and attempts to put us on it in more. The ongoing demonisation of any sort of progressive or compassionate ideal is a deliberate act to motivate people to align with a predominantly right wing view so that when people talk about some of the more serious things that are going on within that right wing, it is dismissed as just a liberal/woke narrative and those who got riled up about gender neutral bathrooms or whatever just fall in to line and dismiss the serious claims that need attention.

    Some people tried to highlight where the real dangers were and have suffered greatly for doing so in having been targeted directly by the people they were warning about or their friends in the media and an army of largely anonymous, but often not, profiles online. And hundreds of millions are suffering from the impact that these manipulators have had on our societies. It's way past time for people to stop and think about who exactly has been encouraging people to fight on comparatively non-impactful topics while they themselves affect the world in very negative ways.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From the responses you've received on this thread, I think it's safe to say that the majority of posters disagree with you.

    I'll leave you to it.

    As I said, you're opening post has no merit for debate or discourse and I have no interest in going around in circles on a merry dance.

    Your opening post was silly and I disagree vehemently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Ah that explains it you live in the USA. I don’t see left right etc. I just see powers jostling for control. That is what it comes down to for me. Strategic partnerships, political marriages of convenience.

    And of course lots of access to military bases in xyz country regardless of which ‘side’ a Vassell country picks. Even ‘neutral’ Ireland turns a blind eye to USA military OP’s in Shannon. Or Chinese funding of universities in Ireland etc.

    The big boys just want to chop up the world either covertly or overtly. To increase their security and control.

    The only real difference to me are the names of the secret service from the big boys who want to control the weaker countries. Or at the very least have someone ‘compliant’ to their viewpoint. To me the left and right stuff is a smokescreen to dupe the masses. It is not as simple as x side = good. Y side = bad. They are all ‘at it’ in some way shape or form.

    The methods may differ but the end goals are very similar IMO.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I think it's safe to say that the majority of posters disagree with you

    That's entirely expected given their role in the creation of and contribution to many of the threads on here I alluded to focusing ire on anything 'Left'. This place has long seen a trend in a particular direction, the focus of many threads and their content is part of what I was referring to.

    Still waiting for anyone to say why the OP was wrong beyond just saying that or trying to dismiss it as a both sides thing. The fact remains that Brexit, Russian emboldment, resistance to Covid strategies and hesitancy on meaningful climate action have been because of right wing protagonists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,754 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    What you’re presenting TMH is nothing more than an example of a conspiracy theory of your own invention. You don’t even know whether he did or he didn’t conceal weapons in his wheelchair, but you wouldn’t be surprised because they love their guns in the US, and somehow people in Ireland who don’t support liberal policies promoted by leftist politicians are responsible for what you’re accusing an American politician of doing?

    That makes about as much sense as punting a child across the globe to meet with politicians and tell them they’re responsible for ruining her future, but I did giggle at the ‘sitting US congressman’ in a wheelchair…

    Awkward 😂



    The above is precisely what I mean by giving yourself a pat on the back for confirming your own biases. If the extent of your evidence of any threat from the right as part of some global conspiracy, amounts to a politician in the US calling into a radio show claiming to have concealed weapons under his wheelchair, I’ll treat your claims with exactly the importance they deserve… 🙄



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It is to do with America sticking its oar in trying to gain ‘influence’. Egging them on to see what happens - ie promising Ukraine- NATO/EU. The fuel added to by American ‘left and right’ President’s in the last 30 years. Also a flawed German policy dependent on gas now/Russia. After ‘going green’ and getting rid of nuclear plants.

    Stupidity this has made NATO just a glorified ‘League of Nations’ powerless. When NATO’s main star European player ties it’s own hands it shows up NATO for what it is. All bark but muzzled / can’t bite.

    It did not take me long to find a NY times article that plays to the gist of your OP. I suppose if you only read these it is no wonder you can’t see the wood from the trees. Massive echo chamber through a narrow American viewpoint of the world.

    Tying a one sided view to ‘left or right. When I see Putin’s invasion of Ukraine I remember American invasions of Iraq/Afghanistan under vague pretexts. At the very least although the pretext is questionable. At least Russia have some argument to historical and cultural ties. The Kievan-Rus. Plus both Ukraine and Russia have statues of Vladimir/Voldimir the great in their two nations. That is how intrinsic the two’s history has been.

    History has much more to do with conflict rather than ‘left v right’ moniker’s IMO. It just depends on how certain sides view history.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That congressman literally said he had guns going to the Jan 6th rally.

    That is all I alluded to, his words, but I am the one inventing a conspiracy theory? Do you think it is fake audio?

    Again, as with the other poster, I'm not patting myself on the back, I'm merely pointing to irrefutable facts about events that are becoming clearer by the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,826 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The boogeyman far-left, far-right are divide and conquer terms designed to "other" people in a distinct group. Everyone you dont agree with is far-"X". Everyone you do agree with is a rational centrist.

    It's a pathetic level of discourse and draws strongly on McCarthyism reds-under-the-bed type rhetoric. Barrage people with labels and fearmongering about how radical-this and far-that groups are infiltrating our institutions and our very democracy, and they want to destroy everything you agree with. Anybody harping on about far-left/right/incels/communists/nazis etc is someone to be avoided, for they have no awareness of nuance and are incapable of debating in good faith.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,408 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    The old everybody disagrees with me so i must be right, id love to have that lack of self awareness.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I don't know if you are implying that I am allowing myself to be influenced by particular media. Of course I deny it, (doesn't everyone) but I can say that I read and listen to a wide range of voices and am more than capable of cross referencing opinions with real world facts.

    There is no dispute that most of the people who are avidly against Russia's actions have also a history of being against conflict in general and US actions in particular. This has been used by others to suggest that these people are therfore on Putin's side because they have in the past denounced the actions of Nato or the US military.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Again, we haven't seen any of this 'lets no put people in to boxes' when the Left were being targeted both individually and as a group for a range of largely small scale, inconsequential (in the greater scheme of things) on a vast array of platforms and by everyone from anonymous online accounts to sitting Presidents of the US.

    So I strongly refute the attempts to 'both sides' this. As the thread title says, the motivations of one particular group have been significantly more negatively impactful than the other.

    And the focus being as it was, was intentional and problematic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    You put it a lot better than I did. Zero nuance is a better way to phrase it. All the OP’s terminology is basically CNN v FOX stuff. And the OP has picked a ‘side’. Both awful in my opinion all they do is seem to create divisions in America.

    They seem to tie the serious or mundane through constant prisms of ‘left v right’.

    And to my eyes anyway the OP is a product of this media.Must be hard to avoid over there. Spilled over even on boards.ie along with all the American terminology like ‘woke’ ‘triggered’ etc.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,408 ✭✭✭newhouse87




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So first it was 'why are we talking about this in Ireland'.

    Then it was 'oh he is blinded by the media as he is in the US'.

    Both attempts to ignore the points made. Beats having to consider them I suppose. Hope you bring the same energy to threads like the 'wokism of the day thread' and all the other ones specifically started to target left ideals or individuals. That's the whole point of this thread, people are ignoring the reality of dangerous practices to put their efforts in to much less significant concerns. And that is problematic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    How were "the left" being targeted both individually and as a group for a range of small scale things? And I'm assuming you feel that this targeting was not justified. Can you elaborate as to why it was unfair to target them for their transgressions? And why do you blame the "far right" for this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Check out Carol Cadwalladr's experience and come back to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,048 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    No.

    Post your relevant arguments here or go home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I view ‘Wokism of the day thread ‘. As another pointless Americanised Thread that as seeped into boards. Silly ‘studenty’ type stuff would not even look at it never mind post in it. Your stuff on this thread is on the other end of the spectrum which is just as bad.

    But it is eye opening to me that you jump to ‘the wokism of the day’ thread and assume I have any interest in it. I don’t, to me it is just a further Americanised encroachment on boards.ie. The other half of the American coin you seem to be rallying against.

    But thankfully America does not = ‘the world’. And either half of an American political world view which thinks it is ‘the world’ are just annoying to me.

    Whether they call themselves ‘left or right’ is irrelevant to me. They don’t even have nice chocolate and have that annoying sales tax. Not as great a place as it likes to pretend. Even on that level.

    What is relevant to me is how the Irish nation manages to navigate around the choppy waters of ‘big boy’ global politics. Basically to play global powers off each other in the hope of getting the best deals possible for Ireland.

    Irish governments are well versed at that. Wheeling and dealing. Optics.

    When I think of global politics. I don’t think in terms of American definitions of ‘left or right’. which do not apply in Irish politics. The framing in your definition of ‘left v right’ are American defined ones. Vastly different to what anyone in Ireland would call ‘left or right’.

    In contrast to you, I think in terms of Ireland constantly keeping its options open with foreign trade even beyond the EU. The American ‘left and right’ blather is nonsense to me.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol. OK then, stay oblivious, or at least pretend to be. Explains a lot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's not all about America, no one is pretending it is.

    I already pointed to the UK and the EU and ways they have been destabilized because of ambivalence towards the risks from people with right wing ideals, if not out right support for them.

    And the climate and covid conversations both heavily influenced by similar ideals are both of course global issues.

    So much as you want to shut thus down by painting it to be an American only topic, that isn't the case.

    P.s. there is no significance to me referring to the wokism thread, it's one that came to mind, out of many.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Her experience of fleecing mugs for funds to fight a court case when she knew hadnt a leg to stand on?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    'hadn't a leg to stand on'

    Must be why some of the things she was being sued in court for were withdrawn and why the girlfriend of the former Leave.EU partner of the guy who is suing her, herself an ardent Brexiteer, described the man suing her as 'an agent of influence of the Russian state'.

    Interesting that someone literally having to crowdfund to defend themselves from being sued by this man is seeing as fleecing mugs and elsewhere someone who claims to be one of the worlds wealthiest business men asking for money for a private jet is somehow supposed to be seen as being patriotic. That's a microcosm of the issue with right wing narratives and how messed up they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I think I can fully agree with the OP if I am reading his post correctly. There is plenty to be negative about in relation to some left leaning ideas and the sillier aspects of " Woke culture" (hate that term though)

    However the main problems facing society include things like climate change, Russian aggression, distrust of Scientific opinion, COVID denial and anti vax sentiment, been prime examples are largely driven by right wing agendas.

    Brexit was a prime example where large numbers were hoodwinked into thinking it would be a pain free transition by largely right leaning press. I have no problem with people supporting Brexit it was the demonstrable lies the pro Brexit side got away with is galling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is some of what is going on in the US.

    Across the US, Republican legislatures have introduced more than 200 bills aimed at reducing local control over elections and restrict voting access, according to the States United Democracy Center. All of it is aimed at ensuring that Republicans will have control over voting and elections rules, in support of Donald Trump’s false claims of widespread voter fraud in 2020.

    ........


    The turn of events in Spalding county might have come as a shock to locals – a majority Democratic election board, with three Black women, becoming majority Republican, with two white men and another of Cherokee descent, virtually overnight – but Spalding county is no outlier. In at least five other Georgia counties, local election authorities have been restructured in favor of Republicans. It’s all part of the same story: the nationwide push to place GOP officials in positions of authority over elections.


    The above article was published on January 30th.

    This is what Fox were focused on, round the same time, this from January 27th.

    This isn't an accident, it is deliberately riling people up against supposed Left Agendas (no one on the left had anything to do with Minnie Mouses clothing) so that they discount emerging news like what is happening on electoral boards and it is ultimately making the world a more dangerous place.

    Georgia was key in Trump being defeated and Trumps own former National Security Advisor, John Bolton, himself said that if Trump had been returned, he would have pulled the US out of NATO and as such I think we'd be looking at an even more ominous situation in the Ukraine than what is there right now. The GOP are making sure that as much as they can, that what happened in Georgia in 2020 will not happen again. And too many people are willing to give them a pass on this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yep. That's pretty much it.

    And a slight side point is that aside from the difference in ideologies, and their impacts, the use of keeping left wing ideals in the conversation as being something to be guarded against is a deliberate ploy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,770 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    There was significant. As it is what you would do if having a political debate with a yank. The implication being if you ‘do not agree with ME’ you agree with xyz . Shoehorning Brexit as comparable to American politics is lazy IMO. There are a lot more historical reasons that have nothing to do with American notions of left v right.

    Brexit was bubbling for years Britain did not as much as join the EU they fell into it via the back door. Plus EC/EU court decisions demonstrate time and time again that the UK did not view itself as part of the ‘European project’.

    I would however agree with you that Britain was hoodwinked into leaving. It was brought down to base issues the ordinary man on the street could understand. At the expense of difficult to understand benefits of EU membership.

    You have already mentioned green climate issues a few times as if the utopian ideal is the answer, But Germany went whole hog that route destruction of nuclear plants in favour of gas. Now that move has backfired spectacularly with their dependence on gas from Russia. And the shelving of the Nord 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany.

    In general going Green sounds good on paper. But besides needing to be ‘well heeled’ to go Green in general. Geopolitics and geographical location also dictates how successfully green a country can be. Idealism does not keep people warm.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    Wait a minute, is @Tell me how really using that clown from North Carolina as some example of a Far Right threat who was concealing weapons in his wheelchair? You actually believed him @Tell me how?

    This is a guy that has lied about everything from his car crash, to his military service, to his marriage for Christ's sake.

    He's a laughing stock that will likely be out at the next election.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,627 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I'm not shoehorning Brexit in to anything, again, this is not an American only discussion. The reason Brexit was bubbling for years have a lot to do with the protagonists who have always had the right wing mindset that I am talking about. Nigel Farage being at the front of the queue of these people. The links between Trumps victory in 2016, and the outcome of the Brexit referendum connect very clearly with Russian influence. That can no longer be ignored.

    The green situation is pretty clear, there are problems coming, and doing more of the same is exacerbating that.

    Some people are of the lets just plough on and then be reactive as we need to be, I believe we need to be proactive so as to hopefully minimise impact, and to avoid the massive suffering and conflict that will arise if the problem gets to the point of being insurmountable or irreversible.

    Avoiding having a meaningful conversation with respect to action because of the real problems that do have to be overcome, is close to being the worst approach.



Advertisement