Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

E.coli · 04-03-2022 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727902#Comment_118727902

Much easier to go out and run hard, suffer and it be over till the next day.

Marathon is so much more emotionally attritional. AMK and Murph_D are right somedays its about weathering the storm and just ticking the boxes. They don't all have to be pretty steps along the way but each one gets you closer to the start line

babacool · 04-03-2022 5:34pm

You wouldn’t happen to have a strava link to the limerick marathon route? I scared a friend when I said “you need to run hilly routes as limerick isn’t flat”. He is scared now 😁

Swashbuckler · 04-03-2022 7:47pm

@healy1835 would you mind pimping out your sub 3 limerick run one more time?

It's not that hilly @babacool .

babacool · 04-03-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733121#Comment_118733121

Uuuuuhhhhhh that “your sub3 limerick run” microphone drop 😁.

thanks. Got it of someone else. Says “231m of elevation” which is more than Dublin has. Might be some false reading but definitely scares him now. Let’s keep it that way. Has him focus a bit more on training 😂

healy1835 · 04-03-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733121#Comment_118733121

It's on the Limerick Marathon thread. I'm not posting it again after the guff you gave me last time 😢

Swashbuckler · 09-03-2022 3:52pm

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 10 – (03-Mar to 09-Mar)

Marathon training is gas. One week you're worried it's too tough. The next you're worried it's too easy...Or maybe that's just me.

Thursday, Mar 3rd

Plan: 2E/6M/1E/4M/1T/1E

Actual: 2E/6M/1E/4M/1T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

AMK had predicted I would find this easier than the 12M last week and he was spot on. I understand the fact this was broken up with a 1E in between would make it somewhat easier but even the initial 6M felt easier. This whole run just felt "good". I didnt feel like I was struggling at any point. Took in a much lumpier route this time including sections of the marathon route itself. Got in the section up Rosbrien road and into Dooradoyle and loop around Churchill meadows. This part of the route is certainly not easy. Some drags and bumps. Up to Collins bar and into Churchill meadows surprised me actually. I had forgotten about the few drags and bumps around there. Plenty of pickup in the legs for the threshold mile which was also on a lumpy section of road. Felt like a good days work in the end.

2E: 7.54/7.59

6M: 6.50/6.48/6.51/6.45/6.53/6.46

1E: 8.00

4M: 6.56/6.56/6.53/6.47 (toughest part of the route)

1T: 6.10

2E: 8.04/7.55

Total: 15.2 miles, 1hr48mins, 7.07min/mile average

This run is in stark contrast to some of the runs in the first week or two of the plan. Definitely getting stronger.

Friday, Mar 4th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6 miles, 51mins, 8.28min/mile

Nothing to report. Nice and handy - didnt feel overly tired but the usual "legs have worked the previous day".

Saturday, Mar 5th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest. I had always planned that I would need to run 7 day weeks for some of these peak mileage weeks. It just hasnt materialised. Family have taken priority meaning I make up the miles the rest of the week.

Sunday, Mar 6th

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy 9.1 miles - No Strides, 73mins, 7.58mins/mile avg

As seems to be the case every week - long day, zero enthusiasm for this - loved it. Very fresh legs.

I think I miss the run on Saturday so by Sunday I really feel like I need the mental reset. I'm recovering very well from the sessions this week.

Monday, Mar 7th

Plan: 5E/3x2T/1T/2E

Actual: 5E/3x2T/1T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

You know you've made progress when you look at this and think - only 5 miles Easy before the threshold? Ah shur thats grand.

All joking aside Daniels plans do condition you in a way that 14 mil sessions no longer seem daunting.

This was another one I was really really happy with. Very very windy day, to the point where I considered pushing it out a day but persevered. Impossible to get a route where the wind would be in my favour so just decided to go out and take it by feel. Also chose lumpy route again. Mentally this has been the biggest success over the past two weeks. I feel like I'm not scared by these sessions being out on "real" road over picking easier routes. Hopefully that will stand to me both mentally and physically on the day.

Blasted by the wind for a few of the threshold miles here which is reflected in the pacing. I'm proud at how I managed this one though. By the end I felt like most, if not all the session was at the right effort. Handling this session far better than the equivalent session several weeks back. It feels like an age ago where I had to change a 3x2T into a 4x1T. On paper , the paces are all over the shop. The reality was quite different. All 2min recoveries were jogged.

5E: 8.08/8.08/8.09/8.11/8.09

2T: 6.38/6.20

2T: 6.16/6.18

2T: 6.12/6.16

1T: 6.26

2E: 8.22/8.06

Total: 14.9 miles, 1hr50mins, 7.21min/mile average

Tuesday, Mar 8th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6 miles, 50mins, 8.20min/mile average

Another very blustery day. Tired last couple of miles but thumbs up. All good.

Wednesday, Mar 9th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 9.2 miles incl. 8x20s strides, 75mins, 8.04avg

Felt super - very much recovered - enjoyed this run. Running at work has been a breath of fresh air

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: 60.4

Time on feet: 7hrs 47mins

Miles in the block to date: 558

Number of MP miles: 51

Number of Threshold miles: 49

Comments

Very happy with this week - too fresh?????? Am I peaking too soon????? Purple patch??????? aaaaagggggghh.... 😂. I'm sure the next few weeks will bring me back down to earth.
Taking to the lumpy routes for the sessions has been a good move (I think) and thanks for those who gave advice on this front.
Running in work has been refreshing. The old jeans feel a little tighter around the calf muscles than they used to. Either thats training or its the fact I've got used to wearing tracksuit pants working from home for two years.
We had a very good TED talk at work this week from John Kinsella. He used to frequent these parts before my time I think. He took up running in 2015 to lose weight and recently ran 2.29 in London and I dont think he has even got close to his full potential yet. Frightening progress.
Plan to try out the Alphafly and gels in my next session. I've been getting a bollocking from healy for not doing this sooner so it's more to keep him happy than anything else.
The weeks are ticking by. Can't believe I'm moving into week 11 of the plan already.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 60min Easy/8M/1E

Q2: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E

ReeReeG · 09-03-2022 5:18pm

I don't really have anything to say other than I am really enjoying following your build-up to Limerick. Great detail in the training each week. If you can manage long runs in the evening mid-week after a day of work, the longest one of all on a Sunday morning should feel much nicer I reckon!!

Murph_D · 09-03-2022 10:25pm

Great progress, love that feeling when the accumulated strength kicks in!

diego_b · 09-03-2022 10:41pm

Looking good so far P, take the good weeks when they come....nice reward for the work done to date and a good boost for the work to come.

AuldManKing · 10-03-2022 10:41am

Great work - 3 things I really like;

(1) Doing some of the runs on the Marathon route - this is gold!

(2) Tempos by feel/effort

(3) Lumpy routes.

Top marks young man.

Swashbuckler · 10-03-2022 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761364#Comment_118761364

Yeah at this stage I've covered the Ennis road side, the UL side and the Raheen/ Dooradoyle side. The only parts I can't really do are the city centre parts as it gets very messy with lights and traffic.

More lumps,bumps, alphafly, gels and marathon pace on marathon route planned for today!

Swashbuckler · 10-03-2022 11:07am

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Annie get your Run · 11-03-2022 8:28pm

Have to agree, I'm in awe reading your updates. I love the detail which explains the process and progress. Makes it easy for someone like me to really understand a Daniels plan.

Swashbuckler · 11-03-2022 9:37pm

Thanks AGYR. We'll it felt like I needed a degree in mathematics to understand the plan so I made it a goal of mine to simplify so people might pick up the book or a plan and easily follow 🤣

Swashbuckler · 16-03-2022 6:04pm

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 11 – (10-Mar to 16-Mar)

Big update this week as I needed to reshuffle which means I have week 11's Q1 update included this week.

Thursday, Mar 10th

Plan: 60min Easy/8M/1E

Actual: 8E/8M/1E

Shoe: Alphafly

This would be a little test run where I would try out the shoes and gels I intend on using on the big day. Having never run a session in the Alphafly I wanted to try them out at pace, and over a reasonable enough distance/time on feet. I also wanted to test out taking a couple of gels at pace to see how I managed and if they gave me any "issues". I had been hesitant til now to experiment with the shoes and gels as I wanted to get a few decent sessions under my belt first. But then Healy gave me fierce abuse so I said I better bite the bullet. 😂

Wind was a big factor again on this run, as has been the case on a lot of sessions in this block, in particular there was one 7min/mile. Same story again in terms of route. I didnt take the easy option. Was very pleased with how this went but it was a toughie. The gels were fine. So its SIS gels for me for Limerick then. As for the Alphafly I felt like they were missing the magic for the first 8 miles but they felt better when I picked up to marathon pace. However I had hotspots on the soles of both feet about 14 miles into the run. Hard to know if it was the shoes or the socks (new compression socks). I'm gonna need another trial run with the Aplhafly in different socks and then possibly in the Next% if the Alphafly don't work out.

8E: 7.56/7.57/8.02/7.53/7.58/8.04/7.56/8.02

8M: 6.52/6.50/6.46/6.50/6.42/7.00/6.45/6.44

1E: 8.10

Total: 17 miles, 2hr07mins, 7.26min/mile average

Another good one in the bank on a day where I wasnt particularly feeling fantastic.

Friday, Mar 11th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 42mins, 8.21min/mile

Felt great after loosening out in the first mile.

Saturday, Mar 12th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest. Had a lovely day with the kids - we headed to Killaloe for lunch! Lunch! In a hotel! without masks! Nice to see some level of normality coming back again.

Sunday, Mar 13th

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Mondays planned session moved to today: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

Ugh - absolutely pummeled by the wind here. If I didnt like these sessions before then I certainly dont now. I needed to reshuffle this with Patrick's Day coming up. I wanted to take Thursday, 17th off so I can enjoy it with the family rather than have a session looming over me all day so I shifted the Monday session back to Sunday and the following Thursday back to Wednesday.

Pretty easy to sum up this session. Wind was desperate. Tried to make sure I finished the 8 miles "warmup" in a spot that would allow me to at least avoid the worst of the wind. I made a bad choice at mile 7 and went a direction which I thought seemed less worse...I was wrong...500m down the Condell Road I quickly realised this was gonna be a bit of a barrage...So decision made, go by effort, get the turnover and keep form, forget paces....The pace splits tell the entire story. Threshold pace for 5k effort. Tough night of it. Not very enjoyable. Got it done.

8E: 8.06/8.03/8.02/7.52/7.59/8.00/7.59/8.18/8.34

4 x 4mins split paces: 6.10/5.42/6.02/6.07

3E: 8.20/8.20/8.16

Total: 15.3 miles, 1hr59mins, 7.49min/mile average

Monday, Mar 14th

Plan: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E (Completed the day before)

Actual: Easy 5M

Very good recovery. Didnt feel yesterdays session in the legs too much.

Total: 5 miles, 42mins, 8.25min/mile average

Tuesday, Mar 15th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 7 miles incl 6x20s Strides - 59mins, 8.29min/mile average

Poor sleep Monday night. Low energy for this one. Didnt feel fantastic.

Wednesday, Mar 16th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Thursdays session moved to today: 20 miles

Shoe: NB Fuelcell TC

The biggie! Longest ever run. Prepped well enough for this in terms of nutrition and hydration. Very warm out so it was singlet and hat weather. Took two gels with me and saltstick fastchews. Note to self - saltstick fastchews are a pretty unpleasant thing to digest at any pace. Fizzy acid is how I'd describe them.

I dont intend on breaking this down mile by mile. Took a gel at 45mins and 90mins. Probably didnt have enough water. Very very warm today. Went through a few emotions during this one 😂. For the first 10 or so miles it was fine although in the back of my mind it was lingering that I was about to complete (or attempt to complete) my longest ever run. Probably played on my mind a tiny bit but the last several few weeks has given me a lot of confidence. Was out and around UL and up to Vistakon (the marathon route). I found as the run went on I needed to concentrate more and more. Wasn't easy to just switch off. 2hrs 40mins out on your own is a lonnnnnnnngggggggggg time. The music kept me going. I have to say I enjoyed this - mostly enjoyed the challenge of ticking off my longest ever run. The last mile was interesting - could feel the effort level drifting up and felt more leggy. Not sure if its hydration or glycogen depletion. Anybody know?? I'd be interested to hear. It felt like approaching the point at which everyone wants to avoid on the big day. Don't get me wrong - I wasnt flogged, but I was moving in a direction where another couple of miles would have been a struggle.

Total: 20 miles, 2hr39mins, 7.55min/mile average

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 69.3 (this is artificial due to Week 12's Q1 session being pulled in to Wednesday

Time on feet: 9hrs 8mins

Miles in the block to date: 627.3

Number of MP miles: 59

Number of Threshold miles: 49

Comments

Entering a tough period in the plan now - big big sessions coming starting with the 20 miler today. Glad I decided not to race Mallow.
Very happy still although I think the next few weeks will be tough. I expect to be more tired. These weeks will be a true test of where I'm at. If I can get through them I think my confidence (which is already high) will be flying.
Will need to do some more shuffling over the next period with birthdays and solo parenting nights coming up!
Week 12 mileage should be lower to counter the high mileage in week 11. This should happen naturally enough.
Happy to have gels sorted. Will be happy when I have the shoes sorted too.
I laugh when I look back at the guy on day 1 making plans for paces and referencing off a 36.22 10k time. There isnt a solitary hope in hell I would manage the marathon and threshold paces associated with that 10k time....Not in this block anyway. Sub 3 is now the A goal.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 20 miles (done)

Q2: 2E/8M/3x1T off 1mins/2E - might try the Alphafly here again.

babacool · 16-03-2022 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794608#Comment_118794608

Think you are starting to overthink the shoe and gel part. (Ok gel is sorted). What I normally do as part of a marathon lead up I pick a shoe at the start of the block and then have my test races starting at 10k, 10mile, half and then full marathon. Always using the same shoe just to get a feel on how they develop with increase in distance and always slightly slower pace. This experimenting with them at this stage just adds unnecessary stress without any benefit, pick a shoe now and live with it. I also wouldn’t experiment with socks. I have 1 pair that I only use for the 1 big race per year. That pair is now 6 years old 😁.

what I’m trying to say is: if you were happy enough with the next% at your last race, stick with them. Put the alpha back in the box until the next cycle and start using them then.

Then again, what do I know and who am I to give advice?! 😎

Swashbuckler · 16-03-2022 10:33pm

Well the problem with that advice is I've never raced beyond 13.1 miles and I've never worn either the alphafly or next% beyond 10k so I need to know how they feel after 17, 18, 19 miles.

Honestly I'm not stressing...throwing on the alphafly for a session is no different mentally to throwing on the Endorphin pro. It's all good.

babacool · 16-03-2022 10:49pm

you don’t need to know how they feel after 13.1miles. Like I said, last 3 marathon cycles (not talking about donadea here), I only did 3 runs max in the shoes I wore on marathon day. And the max distance been 13.1miles. If the shoe is good enough for that, it’s definitely good enough for the full.

Swashbuckler · 16-03-2022 11:12pm

The only time I've worn the alphafly was in that session where i had hotspots. So what are you suggesting I do?

babacool · 16-03-2022 11:46pm

I suggest to use the pair of shoes that you pick today (if you raced in both of them and been happy with the result, I would pick the shoe you felt most comfortable in). not tomorrow, not after your next run but today. And don’t change your mind.

make a decision and live with the consequences. It’s part of running a marathon and the learning curve.

Sure use them again if you like but stick to the decision regardless of how the next run goes.

Either of them two seems to be a decent enough marathon shoe. So it won’t be a wrong decision.

Wottle · 17-03-2022 10:11am

For me running Seville I decided 4 weeks out. I was between carbon X2, fuelcell elite and Vaporflies. Did a long run in each of them and then it became obvious it had to be the Vaporflies.

I've run marathons over the years but never in a super shoe and I was concerned about the Vaporflies before their first long run because they're not the most comfortable.

I'd say take your time but with 4 weeks to go you should know as you'll probably want to do the last big sessions in them and get an idea for the relationship with pace & HR.

Murph_D · 17-03-2022 10:21am

I would certainly be wary of the hotspots you developed with the combo you used. Babacool makes an excellent point but I’d maybe have another go with some tried and tested socks. A brand/model you know and trust and have used before without issue. With the caveat that you can only learn so much from the dress rehearsal. Ultimately you’ll be diving into the unknown.

The ‘leggy’ feeling at the end of the run is probably glycogen depletion alright. You’re going to feel it either way, no matter how you react to gels the supplies are going to get lower than they ever have before. It’s a feeling you’ll learn to live with as you take things to the edge.

Swashbuckler · 17-03-2022 11:05am

Thanks guys.

With the shoes it would be a different story if I had a long history with both shoes. I don't. So they need to be tested out. I'll know in the next ten days which shoe it will be anyway. Plus it's giving me something to think about outside of the pain of the sessions 🤣

squinn2912 · 17-03-2022 11:29am

You’ll hardly come full circle and try out the Cumulous hehe

Swashbuckler · 17-03-2022 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797365#Comment_118797365

Only if my 25 other pairs don't work out in training 😆

MrMacPhisto · 17-03-2022 3:38pm

I think sticking to a shoe now regardless is not a good approach particularly when you have plenty of time left to try out the Alphalfys at MP and the Next % at MP in this training block. I might take Babacool's approach if the race was in 2 or 3 weeks time, but this is not the case.

As Babacool says, both are decent marathon shoes. But if you have the time to try both and see which is more comfortable or suits you better, then why not do just that? Good luck with the decision.

squinn2912 · 17-03-2022 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797419#Comment_118797419

HAhaha!! You and I are very different!

Swashbuckler · 17-03-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798353#Comment_118798353

Give it time..you'll come round 😆

Swashbuckler · 17-03-2022 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798269#Comment_118798269

Yeah I agree completely. To be honest I'm surprised the mention of the shoes got so much attention this week!

It seems wreckless to me to chose a shoe now and stick with that choice regardless. I'm not even that interested in tuning into marathon pace in them. It's more a case of , do I end up with blisters on my feet after 10 miles and if I do then obviously they're off the table for the marathon.

Plenty of time.

babacool · 17-03-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798553#Comment_118798553

the fact that the shoe gets the attention is a good sign. Means that everything else becomes the norm and you no longer need encouragement 😂. And this “will it give me blisters or not” thinking/fear/concern or whatever you want to call that - isn’t that part of running a marathon? Making a decision and just having to live with it? Entering the unknown? Already creating the base for excuses if things aren’t going well on the day (usually it’s the weather or the wrong sun cream or the water cups handed out instead of bottles etc 😂. Whatever you can think off I’ve probably used that excuse at some stage).

i ran with blisters so many times. They have been bloody and huge. Uncomfortable and painful but that hasn’t stopped me wearing the shoes that caused it. Quite the opposite, I continued using the shoes including on race day. Just so the feet get used to it, harden up, and I learn how to push through that pain. It’s an experience you won’t get in a training run.

also who says that the next time you use them shoes may not give you blisters but since you are not going through the same effort as on race day you may still get them on race day? Or if you get them during your next run, who says that it will happen on race day too? Perhaps now they are fully broken in! Point I’m trying to make is: don’t try to cover every little aspect/thing that could go wrong during a marathon (I can’t even remember a marathon where I worried about the right gel or if I can handle it). Focus on getting the sessions and training done. Pick a shoe now (heck I have already decided which shoe to wear for DCM!) and start planning your race week setup. 😁