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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,512 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Keep in mind though that Hitler didn't kill that many people *until* he invaded Poland. Deaths caused by the regime would have been low enough between 1933 and 1939. Nobody is necessarily comparing Putin to the 'Holocaust' Hitler of post-June 1941, but comparisons with the 1939 version mightn't be too far off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭storker


    I wouldn't be surprised if these successful strikes against Russian formations are based on US satellite or signals intel fresh out of the oven. Artillery needs to be directed by a spotter on the ground, in the air, or else very precise knowledge of the target's location. Unless it's true that the Sovxxx Russians are using insecure communications and the Ukrainians are doing the triangulation themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    His point on Hitler is that pretending that Hitler was the worst thing to happen to Ukraine or Russia in the last century is purely down to historical illiteracy.


    That doesn't mean that Hitler was nice, it means that others were more brutal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The Chechens are putting a lot forward for the Russians. Things are not all roses for Kadyrov in Chechnya. There are still a lot of folks that want him removed/killed.

    If you were Mujahedeen in the Caucasus, now would be a pretty sweet time to kick up a fuss.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nothing wrong with stating that we monitor certain individuals or groups. I think you will find that every intelligence service in the world has no issue with staying what their general job description is. There is no details. And the poster I was replying to, seemed to think that Ireland did not have handle on counter terrorism intelligence or counter intelligence. We do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    America was actively in an antagonistic war with Russia when they were interfering with central and south America. They were fighting proxy wars against each other for decades. NATO has never been at war with Russia or instigated proxy wars between them.

    Flip that argument over, why should Romania and Poland have to have Russian aggression right up to their borders after a takeover of Ukraine? Are their security concerns of less relevance than old, decrepit Russia? Russia is a lost power, it has no right to dictate how surrounding countries organise their own defence. They also have NATO in Latvia, Poland and Estonia already. So any idea that they are only pre-empting NATO aggression is a false premise for this war. It's partly a desire to return to the USSR glory days, partly to avoid the embarrassment of a democratic, capitalist economy outperforming Russia and causing other parts of the federation to look west rather than to Moscow. It's also partly to secure the recently discovered natural resources off the coast of Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭combat14




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah ha ha ha true i ment his speech from 2011 thats still used for propaganda against NATO

    Trolls loves to refer to it




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah i know,LOL,it wss his speech from 2012 i was refering to,that kremlin trolls loves to refer to



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,405 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Would love to see that prick with a bullet or 50 through his skull. Would be nice if the Americans had some intelligence on him so he could get what’s coming to him soon



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    I never said the others were innocent. But do tell me how many serbs were brought before the ICC for the most heinous crimes? And these criminals are still celebrated in Serbia as "liberators".

    You may have forgotten the names of Radovan Karadjic, Slobodan Milosevic, Ratko Mladic and Arkan, but I and many others will never do so.

    What they did would make Putin look like a schoolboy running errant tricks on pals. Srebrenica can never be whitewashed, and do not try to by implying moral equivalency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭threeball


    People also willfully ignore the fact that Hitler was not the architect of the death camps that defined the nazis extremely brutality. That gem was the brainchild of that other utter sh1t Himmler. In fact the entire Nazi machine was the extremely unfortunate coincidence of some of the most evil people in history co-existing in the same country and with similar political views. Hitler, himmler and goebels all brought unique elements of evil to the mechanics of the nazi movement. Putin doesn't have that around him. He's far more isolationist and even more dictatorial than Hitler.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Sure, they have the equipment, but as many a woman has said about some men - it's not about what you have, it's what you do with it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭threeball


    I'm not arguing whether Hitler was worse or better. I'm merely pointing out that their MO is similar. Too similar to ignore and pass off as lazy analysis. As I said in my other post, Hitlers level of evil was expanded due to company he kept. A true perfect storm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Not Russian hate - but Putin hate! Or do you make a distinction between the two?

    Those Russians who have risked so much by demonstrating against Putin's war are to be admired. I have no hate for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,512 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I suspect that tens of millions of Russians probably oppose the war, especially those aged under 30, but given that they are living in a dictatorship and a police state, it's very difficult to air their opinion publicly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    It isn't Putin sitting in the jets dropping dumb bombs on hospitals, churches, and buildings with "Children" written outside.

    It isn't Putin sitting in the tanks firing rounds at pensioners and civilians with their arms up.

    It isn't Putin opening fire on civilians lining up to buy bread.

    It isn't Putin lobbing artillery shells at the only path out of a Kyiv suburb which had been used by civilians for days to try and flee the fighting.

    It isn't Putin systematically shelling and bombing civilian areas throughout Ukraine.

    We're talking about the entire Russian government and military apparatus here; with what appears to be significant support from the wider populace.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭deravarra


    And those who do live in fear of consequences that may have a drastic effect on their lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,250 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    That’s basically the plot of Oliver Stones JFK



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Amprodude


    Are their civilians that cowardly? The problem is only 1 in every 100 would open their mouth against the regime. If millions of people came out and took the streets in protest and caused riots and looting, I think that would change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    I believe the explanation went something like:

    Russia's most modern cryptographic communications equipment is both not widely available but more crucially operates using 4G mobile networks. Russia has been actively targeting 4G mobile network infrastructure as it moves through Ukraine; ergo lack of 4G coverage and no secure communications in certain areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,641 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Interesting footage and the first time i've seen Chechens involved in direct battle (lads with the red and yellow stripes on their helmets).

    I'd guess it's NorthWest of Kyiv, given the V markings on the vehicles



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep, you got me. I'm clearly a putinbot. Or just maybe I'm at least trying to see the wider picture, rather than go down the jingoistic and populist road like too many are IMHO. At this moment, there is no doubt a discussion on whatever is left of Russia's interwebs where the same jingoistic and locally populist ballsology is being just as fervently believed and pushed by those who support this invasion, sorry "special military operation". Don't want to risk fifteen years in gaol now... And the same labelling and shouting down of different takes on what's going on. That's how this Them Vs Us shíte always goes down. Everybody thinks their side is right. Whether they are or not. That's one of its main features.

    Oh and I never claimed to be an expert, nor am I and neither are you.

    Will putin "win" in Ukraine? Nope. He may win some battles and take some objectives. He already has. But he can't win for very long and he won't take Ukraine, but he could well, likely will win concessions. Which might well suit him. Don't forget one thing: Unlike various successive American president's misadventures where hundreds of thousands died where Brown people live and Americans came home draped in the Stars and Stripes, but miltary contractors made bank, putin has never lost a war he's prosecuted. So far. He won Czechnia and installed his vile homunculus thugpuppet* to keep it "safe". To the degree that twisted beardy little mickey is helping him now with the pride of a minion that wiped his master's arse. He carved up Georgia too and kept what he wanted. And took Crimea. And kept the Donbas in a state of near war for a decade. Syria? Even with US and other's support for opposition forces, his "I like gassing my own people for the craic" mate Assad is still in power today.

    The difference this time is - well some might say it's because White people we more recognise as kin are in play, but that's simplistic too. The difference is far more public and close to home and in a nation that has been pulled in a tug of war with between the West and Moscow much more than his other misadventures. The world's beady eye is on him and his. The world has said Nope. The world has cut him and Russia off in one of the most complete and mutually agreed and rapid ways in modern history. He did not expect that and neither did his cronies. He also didn't expect this much Ukrainian resistance. Nor the help of the world(well save for places like Nth Korea and Mali and South Africa. Go Team Russia!!). He's made a major blunder there, even if his army was the best eveah and was now sitting in Kyiv having drinks.

    He won't back down though. Or at least not in an acceptable way. At first. Even if he takes Kyiv, he's still lost. Even if he kills Zelenskyy he's still lost(which I suspect he won't try to now. Russia has the major horn for martyrs in her culture, he won't want to create one that big). He has to come to the table. There is no doubt about that. And IMHO granted; the real war will be won and/or lost at that table.

    Again just IMHO? He keeps Crimea, leaves Ukraine, the Donbas seen as quasi independent, overseen by Ukraine/UN/Russia, some sanctions will be lifted. Greed will take care of the rest and putin knows greed all too well. He built his throne on it. EU membership on the table and he, they, we know that's a table as long as that he puts between him and his subjects. O he'll push the Big Red Button**.



    *should be a word.


    **Unlikely IMHO. That's where the Hitler comparisons fall down. He's won. He's been in power for over twenty years. He's far more measures, even psychopathic. He's rich and powerful beyond imagining, he has the support, forced or not, mostly not IMHO, of his grateful subjects and he's "won" up to now.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Russians have a tendency to disengage from politics they remind me a little of the Chinese in that regard. They philosophize but they don't politicize.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Did you consider that they wanted them to know they were under surveillance? That it might be a form of proactive deterrence? Or that part of their role is to assure the Irish public that the threat isn't being ignored?

    In either case I don't see what any of this has to do with Russia. I don't see how Ireland would ever be a significant blip on Russia's radar; what exactly would they be trying to achieve via Irish influence? We're a non-NATO country, we're militarily neutral, we're a tiny proportion of the EU about as far away from Russia as its possible to be and still be considered part of Europe, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭thomil


    Your point might have some merit in a country with a working civil society, but that is just not the case in Russia. For most of the country's history, the type of political discourse and the resulting protest culture we have here in the west just didn't exist in Russia, any groups that did speak up usually ended up dealing with the business end of a sabre or later a gun. The only short periods where this type of protest was possible was during periods of weakness in the central regime (1905, 1917-1922, 1990s, to name a few) and those periods often coincided with massive economical hardship, so there is no real positive association with protesting either. This may come across as arrogant, but the Russian people have been beaten into submission to a certain degree by centuries of strong oppressive central governments. They will not rise up en masse until their backs are well and truly against the wall.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    I get your point but my worry is that Russia is not exactly a rational actor in this scenario; certainly not by Western standards... and so hopes that Russia will cut its losses sooner than later might be badly misplaced.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    America was actively in an antagonistic war with Russia when they were interfering with central and south America.

    Hmm, I understood the credo was that sovereign nations were free to choose their allegiances? So it's "interfering" if "They" do it, but a soveriegn nation's choice if "We" do it? Yeah, I can see how that could get a tad confusing alright.

    And indeed let's flip that argument over. But look at it as more of a set of steps, from putin's and much of the average Russian's point of view. Latvia, Poland and Estonia are steps closer. And they're nations that have few enough connections with and no love for Mother Russia for all sorts of bloody good reasons, but Ukraine had and has far more connections with the same Mother Russia. Clearly that's the line putin sees most clearly. One's friends jumping ship is one thing, but one's brother? Meltdown.

    And I agree 100% as far as Ukrainians looking West. I've said a few times in this thread that IMHO anyway NATO is a bit of a red herring(as are the natural resources. Nobody's going to buy them now). What putin fears far more is the EU and that better life for Ukrainians and their children's future. A better life and children's future that is far more of a pull to his Russian subjects who have too many close ties to Ukrainians and far more of a threat to him, than any potential missle silo or miltary threat.

    Feck it. I'm off to my leaba. Have a good one DHTD. We'll tell each other to feck off in the morning. 🙂

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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