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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,131 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Hamachi threadban lifted



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Terrific to see countries like the UK and Israel starting to accept thousands of Ukrainian refugees too.

    This should ensure that Ireland can welcome a solid number of desperate people commensurate with our population size.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I believe we're taking in approx 100k if rumor's are to be believed. Personally, I think it is likely to be higher but we'll have to wait and see how the situation on the ground develops



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Correct. We have no idea how many will come to Ireland. It’s pointless speculation at this time. With more countries opening their borders, it provides an opportunity to load balance in an equitable manner.

    Best case scenario, is that negotiations with Russia gain traction quickly and fewer people are forced to flee. Ukrainians are a proud people who love their country. I’m sure you agree that the optimal solution here is that a ceasefire is brokered and the number of desperate people forced to seek sanctuary in an unfamiliar land, is minimized.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No argument about a ceasefire, however one important thing to note, especially in the eastern cities and towns of Ukraine, there are few building still standing so many from that region will have little option but to keep moving until they reach a destination that can offer them sanctuary. That could be western Ukraine, Poland, France, or Ireland etc.

    Regardless of what happens or how quick it happens, it'll take many years to reconstruct Ukraine and the longer it drags out, the longer that process will take



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just like to say white people are the most likely to marry outside their racial group. We are the most open and tolerant. My wife is from the far side of the world. Nobody from my family batted and eyelid but there was all sorts of comments and backbiting from the inlaws



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    That's actually not true. The US is probably the most racially diverse country in the world. In the US, Whites are the ethnic group least likely to marry interracially. Most recent statistics show that 90% - 95% of both white men and women marry within their own race.

    The groups most likely to marry outside their own race are Asian (women) and Hispanic men and women. Although given that a significant % of Hispanic people in the US are either predominantly or entirely white, it's debatable how many of those marriages to white people are truly interracial.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The human race is all the same race. The separation of peoples is a societal one. People generally couple up with people from the same background and socio economic backgrounds. Colour or ethnicity is not really relevant.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Except it clearly is. Because even when you include the other variables the overwhelming majority of people even in multicultural nations of longstanding couple up with people of the same "colour" and ethnicity.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Historical statistics. As different nations become more diverse and the spread of different ethnicities grows over socioeconomic divides, interracial couples increase.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    That sounds like you're confusing dreams with reality tbh. Hamachi is quoting statistics that show that even after 400 years of diversity, countries like the US still show clear grouping in marriages by ethnicity. The old adage is that opposites attract, but studies show the opposite is true. People tend to marry people who are similar to them. It is how ethnic groups emerge and endure in the first place.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's one way to look at it.

    another way is by looking at socioeconomic and educational backgrounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    That is a strong factor within ethnic groups. I'm reminded of the poster who told me years ago that he had more in common with a Chinese fan of Apple products than he did with other Irish people. I asked him in what language did he think he and his Chinese friend would share their love of Apple?

    End of the day - Hamachi has already shown you that ethnicity is a huge factor in who marries who in the US despite it being incredibly diverse. So your claim is false.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    In the US, Asian people are the mostly highly educated and have the largest % of people in the highest socio economic bracket. More than 30% of Asian women marry interracially. Less than 10% of Asian men marry outside their ethnic group.

    Conversely, Hispanics are the second lowest ethnic group in terms of both educational attainment and income levels. Yet, both Hispanic men and women marry interracially at a rate of ~25%.

    There is either zero or a very weak correlation between socioeconomic background, educational attainment and propensity to marry interracially.

    Your sweeping statement is false.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Nightmare stuff. There is a difference between European refugees and middle Eastern and North African migrants who are basically invaders to Europe.


    They do not fit in and it shouldn't be our problem. Turn the boats around and drop them off at their neighbours countries where they fit in with their backward medieval ways



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    Asian women marry white men for support very noticeable in Thailand and the Philippines the age difference is extreme .



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sweeping generalisation about entire races or nationalities come across as a tad xenophobic, no?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yep, socioeconomic backgrounds have hardly anything to do with people getting together, sure look at all the barristers from South County Dublin shacking up with single mothers from Neilstown.

    Anyway, personal preference when choosing a partner comes down to lots of reasons, backgrounds, education, values etc. And of course, physical attraction.

    I'm not sure what the point is anyway, do posters expect immigrants to this country to marry Irish people only? Why is it that some people's idea of integration appears to involve watering down the 'foreign' out of people living here? Integration does not need others to loose their own characteristics or culture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    You're arguing against yourself now. Nobody suggested that immigrants should marry Irish people. The thesis of the current discussion is that people, both native and immigrant, tend to be remarkably endogamous. This trend holds true in societies with centuries of diversity. Do keep up..

    Agreed that personal preferences are influenced by several reasons, one of which is race / ethnicity.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The thesis of the current discussion started when a poster spoke about the important aspects of integration and intermarriage.

    Not important in my view.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is a sweeping generalisation that the countries next door are islamic too. They should go there. Europe has more than enough on its plate now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    While it's generally better to be that than the other one for reasons of social cohesion and integration and all that, the point is that Europe has now its own war refugee crisis which needs to take precedence over the ME refugee crisis - as cynical as it may sound and I realize it does resources are limited and we can only do so much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,573 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    It's very important. If the immigrants can be assimilated into the indigenous people, then a whole lot of suffering and mayhem is avoided. If the immigrants cannot be assimilated and maintain distinct ethnic differences over decades and centuries, then you end up with the former Yugoslavia, the former USSR and indeed the current USA which is busily tearing itself apart on racial/ethnic grounds.

    I should add I think handling mass migration and handling aid to genuine refugees is two different topics. There is a war in Ukraine and Ukrainians need immediate assistance to provide temporary shelter. When the war ends, the Ukrainians would then be expected to return to their homeland to assist in rebuilding it. So the requirement to assimilate them into the indigenous people does not arise.

    There has been tremendously cynical abuse of peoples goodwill to refugees to force through mass migration to European countries under false pretences as coached by activist NGOs. The "refugees" arrive, but never leave. It doesn't do any good to accept that a refugee and an immigrant are one and the same thing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The important distinction though is that it happens in Asia. In that case, it's more to do with obtaining a secure financial life for both themselves and their families. Westerners are seen as a solid bet because even if they're useless in the West, they've loads of opportunities in Asia. There's also the aspect of high populations of women in those countries, and so, there's less emphasis on their beauty carrying them. In China that was the case for centuries, until the more recent demographic shifts which propelled the population into having tens of millions more men than women, thereby changing the dynamic/place of women (of marriageable/childbearing age) in Chinese society.

    When you look in the West, though, that kind of behaviour drops considerably. They still marry westerners, but their own value has increased, so the focus is less on the financial, and more on securing the visa, but they know that their own value here in the west is much higher than in the East. Those Asians born here in the west, operate under different priorities... but it's worth always remembering the importance of family, and many Asian families do not want their child marrying a foreigner/westerner. It's a cultural reluctance among many Asian cultures, which is offset by the financial appeal of westerners, or the chance to have a white baby, but many Asians retain the reluctance to marry a non-Asian.

    Most of my partners have been Asian, and quite honestly, I can't imagine not settling down with someone from SE Asia. However, I know that's not that common. Sure, many guys will date them, and even marry them, but they generally lack the appreciation or genuine knowledge of cultural differences, so the marriages breakdown rather quickly. (I'm not going to deal with the wide variety of scams here)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    The primary reason for marriage failure is the age difference.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Actually, I'd say it's cultural differences, and also differences in objectives. For many Asian women marriage is a transaction, and when the guy fails to provide what he was supposed to provide, she jumps ship. You see the same with many Eastern European women, who married someone expecting a particular standard of living, and leaves/cheats when that fails to manifest.

    The cultural differences are pretty large.. I find most westerners are rather flippant or dismissive of the differences in culture, perhaps thinking their experience abroad translates into something useful, but it often doesn't. This is especially true with certain Asian cultures which have a public face, and a private face, so it can be very difficult for a western man to come to any strong understanding of it, before making the plunge (and he might never understand it at all).

    Age is rarely that big of an issue, unless you've decided to return home, and expose your Asian bride to a lot of opinions coming from western women that they should be dissatisfied. Couples who stay in Asia, tend to remain together.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    It's sad to see those couples or the obviously very incel white guy and asian woman. Can't shake the feeling that the girl is being exploited in a way. A lot of white guys on the right wing seem to have asian girlfriends. It's funny how they talk about preserving their white genetics and other weird stuff like that but once they realize that white women don't want them I think they look at more transactional relationships and their ideologies go out the window



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