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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Yes the uk and us defence departments do not draw their conclusions from the media but those private conclusions and what they announce in public may be different.

    They do run their own propaganda and have their own agendas.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Of course they might. UK policy is not actually to put troops on the ground/start a European war. Claiming they are pushing propaganda in order to portray Ukraine as doing better than they are in order to slowly bring about WW3 is, well, stupid. If anything there is public support for greater military intervention than is already somewhat cautiously being carried out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech



    Just when you thought you had seen it all -

    Russian Credibility is now in minus territory IMHO - let another sign that Russia has willingly decided to go off the reservation. They never really come back to any meaningful relationship with the west

    I mean we can laugh at this - its a transparent finger to western commerce - but i think it just further proves how bad things have become. The consequences of this brand infringement are clear and obvious. They would be destroyed legally were it ever to be seen in court. Therein lies the message. It will never be seen, because they are not coming back. There will be no consequences for this blatant nonsense

    Reminds me of a line from Game of Thrones (if you will indulge me, i need not spell it out)

    Forget about the bloody gods and listen to what I'm telling you. Cersei understands the consequences of her absence and she is absent anyway, which means she does not intend to suffer those consequences. The trial can wait. We all need to leave.

    Apply that sentiment to everything that is going on, and you have a new Cold War, imho

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Could Ukraine send unmanned aircraft into Russian territory laden with leaflets and propaganda materials explaining the situation on the ground to the Russian public directly?


    How far into Russian territory could such "missiles" penetrate?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,353 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That is the single most pathetic, insecure and ludicrous decision I've seen a mature sovereign nation do outside of Trump and Brexit. I wonder what copyright law is like in Russia cos the actual Golden Arches might be quickly filing a Cease and Desist. Or is this just smoke and mirrors, a little brand marketing to get some column inches; would love to know how relevant Russian's brands like this were in the first place: could be the equivalent of the local chippers here declaring themselves "McDonaghs"



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    For what benefit? Ukraine would need to reach Moscow and beyond basically and even then it's likely to be seen as propaganda and not believed by the people who look at the TV as their current source of truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I dont think it could tbh - Certainly that has been done in past conflicts - But the Russians would surely shoot down such an attempt

    Worse, they could 'stage' a situation where such an attempt 'killed Russian Civilians' on the ground

    I think the storm of international media is the best way forward - yes i know many sites are blocked but access is still available by many means. VPN access, Satellite over-spill, Terrestrial Over-spill etc - if many Russians genuinely believe in PUTIN despite the above, i doubt leaflets would make much of a difference

    Also if the Ukraine possesses such vehicles (unmanned capable of flying to a target and 'dropping' something) - i can think of far better uses at present.

    Dont mistake my post as being hostile of course, its a good idea - but i think it would be problematic

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I think copyright law - and other international norms - dont really apply. I view this nonsense as more of a statement of intent. (i laughed at first btw, i suspect many did). I mean technically everything is signed off by the Duma, but what does that mean anymore? 'Technically' the Reichstag continued to exist after Hitler seized power, but it was just a puppet. I suspect therefore in this case, that Copyright law means what ever Putin says it means. He intends to suffer no consequences RE international laws

    I would like to think its smoke and mirrors. But when combined with the state 'taking ownership' and leased Aircraft, and beginning to do likewise with western company assets in Russia - its hard not to see the writing on the wall

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Jaw,jaw is better than war,war.


    Surely anything that can counteract willful deception is beneficial.


    Just because something is propaganda does not make it false.


    The Russian people are not exactly free to say what they believe,although I accept many have been genuinely duped .



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech



    Putin's Next Target? The Moldova - Transnistria Issue - Mark Felton (Historian)

    Just a video from Felton RE the Transnistrian question - Felton is usually very good - i think i posted a previous video of his on this. He is worth subscribing to, and im happy to see him posting this type of useful content. He always includes his sources too should anyone wish to check them out, they are beneath each vid

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    About the copyright infringement, while Russia in theory must adhere to the Berne agreement on IP rights, methinks that effective enforcement of such via the Russian courts would be token whilst any businessman who arrives in Russia to enforce such would risk the same fate as Bill Browder (from the book Red Notice) ie Western companies have joined in the sanctioning Russia and the regieme will strike back in any manner it deems fit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Manach, sorry to be flip but just reading this this afternoon and thinking is it not a bit of a nonsense to talk about agreements on IP and such (hadn't heard of one you cite) when Russia has invaded a soveriegn state by choice, with no justification, and is using siege tactics + pretty indiscriminate bombing and the like on cities to try and win its war.

    I think Western companies with assets in Russia etc. will eventually lose them and can write them (and any IP Russia can salvage for itself) off as a cost of taking a risk for profit and investing in an autocratic state (unless there is a miracle, and peace breaks out soon).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,353 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I dunno. I think there's a conversation to have about where Russia goes when this ends. Ultimately it's ordinary Russian's who are going to suffer for its leader having basically self-destructed its economy and ability to function in a globalised world. By way of example, my wife's friend's mother is now permanently stuck in Ireland, unable to return to Russia. What started as a visit has now turned into limbo.

    Obviously, obviously obviously it goes without saying the tragedy here is entirely that of Ukrainians fighting, fleeing and dying a war of naked, criminal hostility. That shouldn't - and isn't - being forgotten. But what happens Russia when this ends? What happens Europe, now that we have hopefully woken up to a world over dependent on the whims of a malevolent world leader? Is all this outpouring of support going to translate into political initiative, or will the pressure of high gas prices force hands?

    Maybe now's not the right time, but at some point normality will return, and as callous as it might outwardly appear that's going to manifest into ... something different and transformative.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'The question is, though, how are those accused of committing the crimes going to be apprehended and brought to court to face trial?'

    That's easy. They aren't.

    It looks like the war will end with some kind of compromise peace agreement (as I predicted on the other thread).

    Blue and yellow mania aside, there's no reason to think that Putin will be toppled or no way of knowing how and when that could happen. Krushchev was removed from power peacefully. Stalin may have been poisoned by rivals. So who knows, it does happen.

    There's no guarantee that the next Russian leader to replace Putin would be more pliable and reasonable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,424 ✭✭✭corkie


    Ukraine - Security Council | United Nations (18 March 2022) - Official

    Ireland's representative speaking at the time below (38 Mins)

    https://youtu.be/-gu5Qr9I-Xk?t=2296

    Was watching on skynews but was cutoff while speaking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I think the point about whats going on RE nationalizations, Russian McD's and the sure to be ignored IP issues, is apt in terms of the conflict. It just highlights Russia's insane response to the Soft Power damage being inflicted.

    Obviously im not suggesting that this is as important as the military situation. It isnt. But given the situation (Putin's Nuclear Arsenal) the west is unlikely to involve itself in the military war. It will instead continue to arm the Ukrainians, and the degree to which this happens might increase. AND SHOULD increase IMHO.

    The Soft power war (im gonna simply use the word 'war' for now) is really the other front. And i think the pathetic behavior of Russia in response to this, should definitely be noted. The McDonald's thing is the most Pathetic thing i have seen thus far - but it didn't happen in a vacuum

    • the Aircraft leases are null and void - Russia will not give those planes back
    • Companies continue to jump ship
    • The Economic sanctions are having an effect
    • Russia is Pariah state to all IOs

    Their 'inept' responses probably drill up some 'flag waving at home' - Im sure puppets members of the Duma are delighted with the response for now but its counter productive. Russia will never be taken credibly ever again, in terms of Trade, investment, and commerce. Everything they do to respond (Russian McDonalds, seizing aircraft et al) only adds further fuel to the fire. But aircraft parts, equipment, microchips, advanced electronics, cannot be 'conjured' into existence. Pretty soon those planes will be useless. As useless as the Domestic Russian Consumer market.

    Its horrible not to be able to act militarily, but the west is doing something. And if Putin falls, the soft power will have played a hand

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I have a bad feeling this is not going to end, or discussion of the end state is very premature. I just can't see "normality" (assume you mean Russia interacting with the West as it has done since dissolution of Soviet Union and up until this invasion) returning anytime soon and measures like sanctions, cutoffs etc. will get deeper and harder and become more like a Cold war type mutual excommunication eventually. How severe that gets, I don't know.

    Russia starting to appropriate (big word for rob I suppose) Western corporate assets inside Russia is part of that, they could be quicker off the bat and more open with that sort of thing as no pesky "rule of law" or rights for citizens let alone protections for foreigners (or law and rights there are putty in the hands of Putin/Regime).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It looks like the war will end with some kind of compromise peace agreement (as I predicted on the other thread)

    As opposed to what? Ukrainian forces storming Moscow? Obviously it can only end in either the conquest and occupation of Ukraine (seemingly impossible) or a peace agreement.

    The question at this stage is merely one of what kind of peace agreement and it has steadily over the last three weeks moved more and more from a capitulating one for Ukraine to a face-saving one for Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Unbelievable nonsense from Russia in that video - beyond belief, its staggering stuff.

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tooka


    I saw an interview with David starkey yesterday where he said believing diversity is our strength is fine until you come up against someone who believes strength is our strength

    I know many will dislike him and that’s fair enough, but he has always said China and Russia are dangerous enemies which are empires and allowing one to provide you with your energy and the other to provide you with cheap labour but also then to allow those countries to buy up your countries best assets with the money you have given them is beyond stupid. It’s treason.

    I now think we have always been at war with Russia and china, the common people like ourselves we just did not know it.

    we do now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Its obvious to me and you but not to everyone. Loads of posters talk about Putin falling from power which I don't see how its going to happen but wishful thinking is very powerful. Especially when people are immersed in news media all the time and have formed this huge emotional investment in Zelensky with giant blue and yellow flags flying everywhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,018 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't know how they can keep spouting such bullsh1t with a straight face. Does a person need to take drugs to lie to themselves in such breathtaking fashion? Or is it hypnosis or something?

    The absolute withering and eviscerating responses of the other SC ambassadors says a lot. It wouldn't be often that diplomatic language would be set aside so completely and another SC member roasted in his own juices like that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Russia's belief that strength is their strength has not helped them much when it turned out they weren't that strong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think its impossible. The problem with strongmen is that when they prove not be all that strong it can severely damage them. That said, he does appear to continue to have a stranglehold. But the Russian state will take decades to recover from this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Russia does officially have Presidential"elections" with the next one in 2024 I wonder will be be told politely to announce his retirement so he can go out and still save face.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,199 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    I see Putin had his Nuremberg Rally in Moscow today



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,018 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That stranglehold must be in question now. Those who prop him up, to their own benefit, can see that he is leading them into oblivion. So that support can't but have a huge question mark over it.

    Their wealth, their lifestyle, its all dependent on doing business with the West. And of course with China and India and others, but when their own fortunes are so absolutely tied to Western Investment and technology, it looks more like they are going to try and remain neutral as far as they possibly can.

    This whole subject is actually a great time for the west. For 20 or more years we have allowed our power and control and innovation to ebb away and end up in corrupt and unscrupulous territories like China. Its time for the West to assert itself again as the natural and most sustainable location for all of the power, influence and great industry and technologies of the World. The emerging markets have proven they simply cannot be trusted with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭liamtech


    The MAGNIFICENT CANADIAN edit of a Russian UN letter RE the security council deadlock -


    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sure, but if logic applied like that to all situations then the Kim family would never be able to stay in power in North Korea. Admittedly the difference here being they are losing something they had as opposed to never really having it internationally in the first place which does make a difference.

    Time will tell I guess.



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