Russia - threadbanned users in OP

thomil · 19-03-2022 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805473#Comment_118805473

Hold up! What makes you think we in Germany want it back?

Germany de-facto accepted its eastern borders in 1970, when Willy Brandt signed the Treaty of Moscow, something which was reiterated in the Two Plus Four Agreement in 1990. Given how much money would be required to bring the living standards in any returned Königsberg up to speed with even the poorest parts of present-day Eastern Germany, its exposed location and the likelihood that the local population would be extremely hostile to any German administration, returning that area to Germany would be akin to giving the country a cup of polonium-laced tea. I'd rather do without it.

listermint · 19-03-2022 2:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805481#Comment_118805481

Once again they are using anything they have in the warehouse. Why do you think they are shipping all of their tanks from the east over into Belarus now. Because they've wasted all of their other stuff.

They'll run out of soldiers shortly and mobilisation will be the only option there. They've probably a week left until that trigger has to be pulled.

realdanbreen · 19-03-2022 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799992#Comment_118799992

Hear hear!

Heraclius · 19-03-2022 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805538#Comment_118805538

Yeah, it is total nonsense. Germany has accepted its current borders and there are now barely any Germans left in what was east Prussia. What happened in 1945 shouldn't be a template for the future of borders in eastern Europe unless we want total chaos. We need countries to respect the current borders and their neighbours sovereignty and not to undermine it further.

Wibbs · 19-03-2022 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805240#Comment_118805240

I remember that disaster very well and it was one of the first times I had really sat down and talked with a few Russians(a friend of mine was going out with one). That clip had been all over the news the previous days and it was brought up in conversation. Terrible tragedy etc. What shocked me were the Russian women present - and this stuck with me down to today - whose attitude to that woman being sedated was "Ah well of course. She was being hysterical and upsetting people and disturbing the meeting. It was for her own good". To them this was somehow normal. They certainly didn't appear too shocked at all. Dismissive was the overwhelming vibe. My jaw was on the bloody floor at that.

Even more TBH because it was the women who held this attitude. I knew even then that Russian society, even after seven decades of communism which to be fair was ahead regarding gender equality than most of the West, at least on paper, was much more old style 1940's gender distinctions and roles. So if the men had come out with that I'd likely have chalked it up to that.

Donald Trump · 19-03-2022 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805538#Comment_118805538

and the likelihood that the local population would be extremely hostile to any German administration

Didn't stop ye in the past 😋

joseywhales · 19-03-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805509#Comment_118805509

It's not so much that I think it would be easy but at the end of the day, unless you can find a way to coexist, the other option is complete genocide of russia, so there is a moral imperative to keep trying no matter how long it takes or how many false dawns we see.

myfreespirit · 19-03-2022 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805538#Comment_118805538

I agree, Kaliningrad territory should not be made German again.

The long term aim of the EU should be to incorporate the territory into the EU. Economic sanctions on Russia will ensure the impoverishment of all of Russia, including Kaliningrad. Meanwhile, all around them EU states will be much better developed and wealthier. They might eventually decide to cast their lot with a progressive, forward looking, free and democratic entity rather than a failing empire.

TheTruth89 · 19-03-2022 2:43pm

There is something fundementally wrong about the west standing by allowing Ukraine to be erased from the map by Russia. I know there's the stick of Russia threatening nuclear war (I highly doubt they s choose mutual destruction over Ukraine) but if they aren't going to confront Russia when they are attacking and killing civilians on a near industrial scale then when will they ?

I dread to know where the line is for NATO and the west at this point. We have front row seats at the min for genocide in the Ukraine and our "leaders" are more than happy to stand by and watch it in order to protect ourselves.

Allowing war crimes to happen and selling our souls for the sake of safety or atleast the illusion of it. It's a disgrace really.

Wibbs · 19-03-2022 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805468#Comment_118805468

Agreed. And I fear Russian society at the grass roots level would have to shift pretty dramatically to change that. As I noted before in the thread and the example of nazi Germany; it was a horrible "blip" in their culture that lasted not much more than a decade. It was not their norm. If you had been around in 1900 and were asked which European nation was likely to go mad and for example seek to destroy Jews in Europe, Germany would not have been close to your first choice. Hitler and his cadre of bastards even had to come up with labyrinthine "blood laws" to work out who was really Jewish, because Jews were so integrated in the place through intermarriage. Places like the Balkans, Poland, Russia and Ukraine, where pogroms(a Russian word) were at times a national sport would have been way ahead of them.

Sadly with Russia the "strong man" rich beyond measure autocratic czars who rule with an iron fist and at best leave scraps to their people is their norm. Only once with the Russian Revolution did they say feck this and try to change and they nearly did. At first. And not long after and yet again Czar Josef the 1st ascends their throne. After the fall of the USSR, there was a small window where things might have changed again, but not long after and yet again Czar Vlad the 1st ascends their throne. Rinse and repeat.

Maybe the biggest country on earth is just too big? That to keep that empire together requires that sort of centralised autocracy? I don't know tbh. Maybe if Russia broke up into West Russia, the closest geographically and ethnically and culturally to Europe might have a chance? Can't see that happening any time soon though.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-03-2022 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805581#Comment_118805581

They aren't sitting back. They've gone much further with sanctions and support than I thought they would.

The unassailable fact is that Ukraine is not part of NATO so there are no obligations like for members.

Whilst there is plenty of sympathy and support populations in the west are not going to want a 3rd world war over Ukraine.

Bayonet · 19-03-2022 2:52pm

Ze Germans talk a good game, but the reality is they need Russian gas more than they want to meet their public promises to Ukraine. Europe is great at P.R.

https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1505158157596823556?s=20&t=NkgChFgFplmCGzCLAmcZrg

JoChervil · 19-03-2022 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805559#Comment_118805559

Well, my jaw is dropping seeing some of the posters here buying into PiS and Morawiecki bulsh1t.... And accusing Poland of imperialistic nationalism! BTW PiS donates and supports tiny extreme right wing in Poland (for their minuscule % of votes). Before them extreme nationalists were not allowed to create any organisation in Poland.

Shame on our current government for using such a huge tragedy for their own gain. It is all the talk and to stay relevant....

Field east · 19-03-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805070#Comment_118805070

And during all of this would the general population continue on thinking the same way ie officially pro Putin. AND there will not be one person with the idea of taking him out with a bit of lead because that is all it would take to ‘ hopefully, change the situation for the better. ?

myfreespirit · 19-03-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805572#Comment_118805572

Wait, what????

"... the other option is complete genocide of Russia..."

WTF?????

There are myriad options, absolutely NONE of which come within an ass's roar of genocide.

joseywhales · 19-03-2022 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805621#Comment_118805621

Long term, it reduces to constant indefinite war or integration.

JoChervil · 19-03-2022 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805605#Comment_118805605

Places like the Balkans, Poland, Russia and Ukraine, where pogroms(a Russian word) were at times a national sport would have been way ahead of them.

So, please, give an example that such things happened in Poland before Hitler's times...

19-03-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805559#Comment_118805559

It's a cliche perhaps and I remember reading it years ago but in my limited experience with Eastern European ladies they're delightful. They just do stuff rather than play the helpless damsel in distress over simple things, supposedly stemming from generations of not many men around in many areas. It's still very much rooted in traditional gender roles though, as when a woman becomes "hysterical" it's not useful so she needs to get her **** together or someone to get her to get her **** together.

threeball · 19-03-2022 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804510#Comment_118804510

The $630bn war chest that Russia held outside the country should be put towards reparations and serve as a warning to any country who intends to go to war in future that illegal wars will cost them dearly.

19-03-2022 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805658#Comment_118805658

I was incredibly disappointed in how profusely Stephen Fry apologised for saying something on this topic. Poland was a hotbed of anti-semitism before the Nazis came in and that made set up and execution of the murder machines more convenient and straightforward. Because of the Nazis it seems taboo to point out that it wasn't just a large minority of Germans who were happy to jump into the anti-semitism head first.

Igotadose · 19-03-2022 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805658#Comment_118805658

That's easy. My mother, who was born in the 1920's in Poland, routinely was hidden in the basement of their house when the "Cossacks" came to rape and raid. She grew up with a playmate, Sasha, who was a product of a Cossack and a maid (Mom's family were pretty prosperous.) Not Germans, they came later and by then Mom's family had left (mid-1930's, before Kristallnacht.)

PrzemoF · 19-03-2022 3:18pm

Half of Polish air space is closed for civilian aircrafts to facilitate military operations.

JoChervil · 19-03-2022 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805703#Comment_118805703

Cossacks are not Poles

19-03-2022 3:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805575#Comment_118805575

How about an independent Kalingrad, kinda like the donbass republixs which can be fasttracked for EU membership. Even put it to a Russian style plebescite to the current occupants. They will split from mother russia in an instant

JoChervil · 19-03-2022 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805688#Comment_118805688

Jews were welcomed and hosted in Poland till Pilsudski's death in 1935. Poland gave a shelter to Jews throughout centuries. 10% of population of Poland in 1939 were Jews. 90% of Jews world-wide have polish roots...

dePeatrick · 19-03-2022 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805504#Comment_118805504

I still wouldn’t read too much into it tbh, Ukraine is completely winning the propaganda war in the west and are not doing so bad in Russia either.

Igotadose · 19-03-2022 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805720#Comment_118805720

As we're dealing with memories from a very long time ago, I'll give mom some slack. I think she did mean Russians, though, in the case of "Cossacks."

But, your point was, did this crap go on prior to Hitler? Absolutely, it was pogroms perpetrated by Russians. And, per Mom, the local Poles got involved as well. Let's not paint Poland with a veneer of civilization it didn't have.

Private Joker · 19-03-2022 3:27pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/VDA5966/2b31b87e

spotted this flying over poland.

JoChervil · 19-03-2022 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805737#Comment_118805737

I think I know better on this subject that you basing your knowledge on your mum's poor memory...

It was never "a Polish national sport"...

thomil · 19-03-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805615#Comment_118805615

Not surprised at all, I'm afraid. Disappointed and disgusted at my government but not at all surprised!

Then again, this does affect the SA-6 Strela, not the 2000 Panzerfaust 3 Anti Tank Weapons or the 500 Stingers Germany sent earlier, if that article in the Welt is anything to go by. Those SA-6s were delivered to communist East Germany and have been sitting in Bundeswehr Depots ever since reunification. It's no surprise that only 500 could be found in workable condition at short notice. I know that 700 additional weapons of that type were found to be unsafe to use due to micro-fractures in the rocket bodies. I just wish they would have checked that before making promises to Ukraine!

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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