Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

Poor_old_gill · 12-03-2022 11:21pm

Jack Savage put in a good shift and set up 2 points, won a few turnovers and moved the ball well whenever he got it.

We were playing against probably the best defensive unit in the country so hard work was always going to be important from our half forward line.

I don’t know what game you were watching or how you analyse football but it seems to be laden with a collection of petty biases

munster87 · 12-03-2022 11:25pm

I think he’s right about the keeper position though. Hard to have full confidence in any them for awhile now imo

highball14 · 13-03-2022 1:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118776257#Comment_118776257

Jack Savage did alright but I’d agree with that poster in saying he didn’t do enough. I don’t think anyone can say he really put his hand up. That 11 position is a tough one at this level and anyone replacing Seanie is going to be a come down but he is lacking a bit at this level. The half forward line isn’t overflowing with options but Moynihan did well tonight. I thought Adrian Spillane wasn’t as good as other games. Jack Barry again didn’t do enough for me. He’s nervous on the ball and isn’t winning kickouts or turnovers. Diarmuid O’Connor is the only player I would say who one of our kickouts tonight and that’s a problem. I hope to see Joe O’Connor start at least one of the last 2 games. Graham O’Sullivan and Dylan Casey are options in the backs, both did well. Fantastic also to see Tony Brosnan playing to his ability at this level.

Bass Reeves · 13-03-2022 2:19am

I definitely would like to see Fitzgibbon back. Can never understand the rational of dropping him last year after the league season he had.

Jack Savage did ok but he is not going to shift SOS. Graham O'Sullivan put his hand up and if Breen is not ready for championship he be on the hunt for that position. Casey had a good game after a poorish performance against Monoghan. Brosnan has put his hand up as well but not fully convinced yet. Adrian had a quite game but has been excellent in the rest of the league.

Good performance considering we were missing about four from championship starting team.

We have backup in nearly every line of the team.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 8:37am

But sure even if he had kicked 2-10 from play tonight- he still wouldn’t keep Seanie out of the team as Seanie is one of the top 5 forwards in the country!

We have to look at the role that Jack was asked to play tonight and how we played- he was asked to do 2 things, which were

1) be part of a compact middle third unit that dropped back and occupied space so Mayo couldn’t get their hard running backs or Ruane/O Shea to run through the centre of us - I think he did that and they were unable to penetrate our defence.

2) retain the ball when he has it and move it forward when the option was on - he set up 2 of our points and I don’t think he gave the ball away once so that is a positive in my eyes.

how many half forwards light it up against Mayo? How many half forwards have done great against Mayo in the last 10 years?

He was coming into a match against the beat half back line in the country and did a good job, not great but good.

I’d have him ahead of burns and Killian Spillane in terms of forward options at this stage.

Other than that - I was very impressed with how Tony took his opportunity again and you can’t help but marvel at David’s ability to pull a score out of the bag.

however I’m getting a small bit worried on the Paudi C front - he seems to find a blind alley even when on a pitch by himself

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 8:53am

I don’t recall Savage having one shot at goal in the exception of a free in front of the posts. That is very poor and unheard of for a Kerry starting CF. He was the highest scorer in Kerry championship last year yet can’t get a shot off in a league game. What hope do you think he has come championship.He was the first forward taken off which tells its own story. If Savages performance is the standard you think can help Kerry win an All Ireland then your thinking is years behind where the game has moved to. I’m not going to even get into these 2 assists and turnovers you are claiming as you are being very generous to him. Casey had two two proper assists in the first half and he was playing corner back.

As for bias, I have shown zero bias for any club, area, family name etc. I have slated players like Begley, Foley and Morley last season when they were playing bad. I praise them now when they are playing well. I don’t rate Geaney and Moran as starting players and haven’t for 2 years but I know they are two of the best we have ever had and can play a part from the bench. Opinions are not bias.

Now on everyone’s Goalie talk, Diarmuid Murphy is one of the best keepers ever. However the kick out strategies now were not there in his time. Is he possibly out of his depth trying to coach it? Murphy and Ryan have talent but we are not really seeing it. Something to think about for next season. Fitzgibbon should definitely be brought back into the squad. Would Bryan Sheehan still do a job in goals ha ha.

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777240#Comment_118777240

1 and 2 are a given for any player.

If you can praise Jack Savage and criticise Paudie Clifford in the one post then i think I should stop trying to reason with you.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 9:33am

Good approach to getting your point across- ‘if you don’t think exactly like I think then I’m not going to bother’

I think Paudi is an excellent footballer but I think he hasn’t been producing his best recently.

On where the game has gone? Your dismissive nonsense is laughable- I’m well aware where the game has gone and I’m well aware that a team needs to structure itself in different ways depending on whom they’re up against.

I didn’t think jack was great last night but I thought he executed his role to a good standard and he was taken off because he was running out of gas.

On mentioning that he was the top scorer in the county championship- you are more or less negating your point on him not getting close to goal- so you acknowledge that he can get close to goal and score, then you have to ask about the role he is being asked to play.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 9:44am

And on bias- you had already made up your mind as to how he would play before the match with your comments on the previous page and linked him and Geaney to us getting well beaten.

Now even when you are wrong- you still can’t show the humility to accept it

Bass Reeves · 13-03-2022 9:58am

On Paudie Clifford. We had real wintery weather last night. He is a small ling player on the games context. Last night would not have suited his game with a wet ball and slippy conditions. He was good the last day against Monoghan dry day dey ball.

Mayo are physically a much bigger team than us and the wet night suited them. They will improve however so we will need to as well.

Savage had an ok game last night in his best position at CF without setting the ace alight. Normally CF's are not the first player off the pitch as they tend to have less ground covered than wing forward/ backs or corner forwards. They tend to run in straight lines between the two 45's. The fear I would have is if you stated him on the wing or corner he tends to drift into the middle cenyer third of the field. That would leave holes elsewhere. We saw it last year with PM at center back.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777391#Comment_118777391

Ah yeah bass- I don’t think he was great by any stretch! But I’m just pointing out that the other poster had his “opinion” decided on prior to throw in so he didn’t even need to watch the game.

Bias is letting pre determined opinions drive your conclusion, no matter what

And sure on the shots at goal point- Paudi has none, as a corner forward I’m sure forge wants him beheaded or something equally as dramatic

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 10:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777341#Comment_118777341

I acknowledge he can do it against a lower standard of player at county level. Declan Quill was one of the best club footballers of all time but never did it at inter county level. My point is he cannot do it against a higher standard of player which he didn’t last night and didn’t even come close. Myself and others stated this already earlier in the year, just because we still hold the same opinion doesn’t make us bias, it’s an opinion that has yet to be proven otherwise. You bang on about the role he was asked to play, any average fit club footballer can play that role. My point is that you seem to think playing this role and contributing little else is an acceptable standard. If you are happy that is good enough then take that and be happy with it. I’m not happy with it.

If Geaney had started we would have most likely been beaten as Brosnan did score 1-2. Brosnan also tracked back far better than Geaney so most likely helped keep Mayo’s score line down. My opinion at the time was based on him starting. Also I don’t think anyone could have predicted that Graham and Dylan would have played so well as they hadn’t shown that form previously. My previous opinions of these 2 players have now changed after giving a performance that is up to a high standard. When Jack does the same I will gladly do likewise.

I think you will find I was the first to post I was wrong after my original post.

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777413#Comment_118777413

Paidi can have an average game and get a pass on it because he has shown his quality. He was still better then Savage.

You are the one with the bias and have slowly downgraded your opinion to “I don’t think he was great”. Why would you defend someone who you don’t think was great. You came on here because you are obviously connected to him somehow. He was substituted because he was tiring you said. He was substituted because he was our worst player. Tiring at 50 minutes, he’s not a 30 year old veteran who has massive mileage in his legs. My opinion before the game was based and seeing him in previous seasons where he didn’t prove himself and again this season. He has done nothing to change that opinion. That is not bias. Bias is not liking a guy and no matter what he does you won’t change that opinion. I have posted the same about Begley and changed my mind, the same about Foley and changed my mind etc.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 10:33am

No connection to anyone on the Kerry team- I just have an issue with bar stool mouths

Its utterly bizarre how you have had time to think that Jason Foley wasn’t up to it and now he has changed your mind.

the lad is 23 ffs- is your default position that everyone isn’t up to it?

Honestly this approach to ‘supporting your county’ is strange and alien to me

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777509#Comment_118777509

Being overly positive can also be considered delusional. I call it as I see it. If the view changes I call it differently. Up Kerry.

Poor_old_gill · 13-03-2022 11:58am

I agree with your last sentence

Boom__Boom · 13-03-2022 12:02pm

Good to get a result especially given the conditions and the number missing [Seán O’Shea, Gavin White, Paul Geaney, Dan O Donoghue, Mike Breen, Paul Murphy, David Moran, Stefan Okunbor, Andrew Barry]

Getting a bit sick of getting soaked at games - seems like out of the last 10 games I've been at, there's been serious rain at like 8 of them.

Getting to a league final is very important to Kerry this year given the gap to the Cork game.

Keeper continues to be an issue.

I would be hopeful that as conditions improve that Murphy's game will improve.

I think that overall his kickouts and shot-stopping are better than Ryan so I would be persisting with him.

Midfield is a worry especially in terms of depth - kinds disappoined that Joe O'Connor didn't get a run. Hopefully with the league place pretty much secured he will get a start. I can't see Moran as being anything other than making up the numbers in the squad come championship time.

Casey did well I thought for a relative newcomer (plenty to be building on) Looks like there will be decent competition for that corner-back spot with Tom in the other.

Foley has played every minute of the league and McGrath Cup at full-back and is clearly first choice there. Might it be worth giving a run to the back-up option there in one of the remaining league games? I wonder who exactly is the 2nd choice full-back there under Jack.

Delighted for Graham O'Sullivan and his performance - the only issue is the competition in the half-back line. At the moment I would say White and Morley look like nailed on starters but there is considerable competition for the last line in the half-back spot between Beaglaoich, Crowley, Graham, Murphy, Breen, Andrew Barry, and Warren (making his league debut as well) all in the mix. Okunbor might be a bit of a wild card here too althought I think this year might be a bit soon for him. One thing is that I could see a fast summer pitch of Croke Park being very well suited to Okunbor.

Speaking of AFL one thing I have noticed with a couple of the returned AFL players is that they seem to be that fraction quicker in terms of moving the ball on. I think this is probably due to the rules about tackling and getting caught in possession in AFL compared to the GAA. I do think this speed of action could well be a benefit Okunbor offers over the under alternatives, especially later on in games. Skillswise a thing I have noticed is that the exAFL players use of the ball by hand seems to be better compared to GAA players. Just a better quality of handpassing over all. I wonder have any GAA coaches looked into what drills training AFL coaches are doing in relation to this.

Half forward line was considerably weakened with Seanie which was absolutely no surprise. The issue is just how much it was weakened. For me the centre-forward position is Seanie, then Paudie, then Savage. Savage's game looks the very definition of superb club player, unsuited to intercounty. Savage will probably get more chances with Seanie out but I really don't see him ever being more than a squad player especially given his age (26/27)

Dara looks fully fit again which is a massive plus. Someone earlier said that his place might come under pressure from SOB - I can't see that happening at all - his busy work around the middle combined with his quick kickpassing ability are far more valuable than Stephen. I think th epecking order here is likely to be Dara, SOB and Burns.

I do think there's a strong likelihood that one of the half-forward line will very much be a 3rd midfielder type (at the moment Spillane looks to be in position but this could alter especially depending on what way the midfield options work out). I wonder might Greg Horan be in line to start one of the remaining two games in terms of examining the options here a bit more. Maybe Okunbor might be an option here (or at midfield) The three "midfielder" sports are between DOC, Barry, Spillane, Joe O'Connor, Moran, Horan, Okunbor. Not exactly ferocious depth here for 3 spots.

Didn't hear why Geaney didn't feature but Brosnan did pretty much everything right in terms of putting pressure on the Jack to start him. The interplay for the goal was exactly what I was talking about in terms of linking up with Clifford.

I would hope that there will be a fair bit of rotation/experimentation for the Armagh game. I would really like to see Joe o'Connor and Brosnan both start.

Forge83 · 13-03-2022 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777844#Comment_118777844

Spot on boom boom.

I think O Brien has lost a yard of pace and may not be the threat he once was so better suited to an impact sub role.

Do we have another option at full back to try out?

As for midfield I was also disappointed that Joe O Connor didn’t get a run out. He definitely has something to offer when fully fit. Okunbor is a serious wild card here too again when fully fit as he can field, tackle hard and run. We know what Moran brings. Greg probably deserves a game but I think he will fall short of the panel in the end. J O Connor and Horan would be a good option against Armagh with Moran and Okunbor on the bench if fit. DOC and Barry could probably do with a break considering their club run.

Brosnan needs to have a run of games now. Can’t see how he could be dropped after last nights performance.

highball14 · 13-03-2022 12:42pm

Just a few points on things that have been mentioned.

Just reading comments from Jack and he said that Joe O’Connor played a challenge match with Stacks Friday night to get mileage into his legs. He also said that he is almost certain to feature up in Armagh which is very positive. I think there’s a real opportunity for him to break into the team. He could play the role Adrian Spillane is playing or the role Jack Barry is playing. Spillane has done well but his form has tapered off a bit, I’m still not convinced he is good enough to be a starter come championship. Joe O’Connor could offer a lot in that 3rd midfielder role. I’ve been very disappointed with Barry which is why I still think there’s a strong possibility Moran starts come championship. We are struggling to win primary possession from kickouts and Moran is by far our best ball winner around the middle. I think Moran staying around the middle, Diarmuid O’Connor playing his game and Joe O’Connor in the 3rd midfielder role could turn out to be our best unit.

For those calling for Fitzgibbon I completely disagree. He has very poor length on his kickouts and Clare managed to crack him last year. If Clare can crack him, how is he going to cope against Mayo, Dublin or Tyrone?

Boom__Boom · 13-03-2022 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118777933#Comment_118777933

I would say that O'Brien is definitely still a valuable option off the bench especially in terms of running at tired packed defences. Depending on the opposition I could possibly seen a spot for him on one wing and Dara on the other but I think it's unlikely with Jack far more likely to have a quasi third midfielder in one of the wing-forward spots, especially in games where Seanie isn't starting.

Dara's quick kickpassing ability is very valuable tactically as a way of getting quick ball into the forwards - he's played a lot of ball with David Clifford between the Sem/East Kerry/ Kerry underage and has a good understanding with him. However depending on the opposition (against a very defensive side - it might be worthwhile starting Stephen to run at a packed defence and bringing a fresh Dara on for the 2nd half when the game might be a bit more open.

I do wonder if Jack might try Dan O'Donoghue fullback as an option. I have heard Jack has a lot of time for him. I hope he doesn't move Morley back given how well he has been doing at centre-back. I don't think Okunbor is a realistic option yet - his tackling still seems a bit Aussie Rules - maybe in time. There's no real blatant number 2 for the number 3 geansi at the moment.

I would still have question marks about Jack's ability to make the correct calls, especially about squad management/rotation.

In terms of squad depth/management is that this year Kerry can win an All-Ireland by winning 5 games in the championship.

From next year under the new structure, the minimum number of games Kerry will have to play to win a All-Ireland is 8 championship games.

Squad depth and having options and managing that will be vital.

An Ciarraioch · 18-03-2022 9:26pm

Didn't think David Clifford looked injured, but neither himself nor Seanie Shea are in the squad for Sunday!

https://twitter.com/Kerry_Official/status/1504910577591803909

dobman88 · 18-03-2022 11:06pm

Seanie is definitely injured still. Hopefully just a well earned break for Clifford. Between McGrath cup, college, league and being a Dad to a small baby, a break is needed. And I hope that's all it is.

Think we pretty much know the championship team by now so need to get lads minutes too. Would expect Armagh to win but hopefully a few lads show well.

dobman88 · 19-03-2022 7:01pm

I see Dan O Donoghue in Cheltenham which explains his absence this weekend and Paul Murphy has a hamstring injury he is still a couple of weeks away from recovering.

highball14 · 20-03-2022 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806662#Comment_118806662

Dan O’Donoghue also missed the Mayo game with an injury he picked up against Monaghan. If he wasn’t injured I’m sure he wouldn’t be in Cheltenham!

dobman88 · 20-03-2022 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808769#Comment_118808769

I've no idea whether he would or he wouldn't. Lads deserve to enjoy themselves too and you'd imagine a trip like that was booked months ago. It wasn't a dig at him. Its good to see lads off enjoying themselves instead of missing out on such trips.

dobman88 · 20-03-2022 2:58pm

David Clifford is here and taking part in the warm up. No Dara Moynihan.

KerryM9 · 20-03-2022 3:56pm

What was the black card for?

KerryM9 · 20-03-2022 4:55pm

No idea what the booing was for, Armagh weren't the better team and I don't think the ref 'burned' them.

Plenty work needed still for Kerry, you could really see a lack of bankable midfield options when the pressure came on the kickouts towards the end there.

A lot of positives too, the defense is certainly much better then it was last year, no doubt about it. Also the whole team have a lot of pace really, you could really see the pace there.

Onwards to Tyrone, league final spot already sorted.

Forge83 · 20-03-2022 5:12pm

They say a sign of a good team is one that can grind out results. Our defence was once again outstanding. Jack Savage was excellent and looked to be wrongly black carded from what I could see on GAA Go live stream. Possibly man of the match with O Brien or D Cliffford. Not sure what to think of David Clifford being brought on, would have preferred if the team were forced to up their game without him as that may be a scenario we have to deal with at some stage down the line.

Kerry through to the final now but would still expect a strong team out against Tyrone.

dobman88 · 21-03-2022 2:56pm

Hard to know what to make of the league campaign overall. It seems as the weather has improved, the "better" teams have improved. Kerry having a couple of poor halves of football against Kildare, Dublin and Donegal but had done enough by half time in 2 of them. Dublin coming strong as the weather is less of a leveler. Pity its played so early in the year.

But anyway, nice to see a sold defensive structure appear. Lads not afraid to track runners and hold up play. Also great to see fellas stand up and stop runners by taking contact into the chest. Briain O Beaglaoich and Paul Geaney both stood their men up well yesterday with a bizarre free given against Geaney after he took a shoulder to the chest.

Have seen some comments about Pat Spillane calling it a 'Tyrone style swarm defence" when he called it Puke Football previously. How times change.

Squad depth looking decent this year and hopefully we get a few lads back for a run in the league final before facing Cork. Gavin White would be my pick to get back asap so hopefully he is recovering well.

All in all, "only the league" but plenty of positives to take and look to have a definitive style of play at least.

Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

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